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Thread: 165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

  1. #1

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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    While I really like my current lineup of lenses for 4X5, consisiting of 90/120/210/and 305 focal lengths, I'm feeling a need for a 165. Not a 150 or a 180 - but a 165! I know I could look at a Dagor or maybe an Angulon - but for the sake of overall consistency of process and results, I really do want something optically consistent with modern (post 1980) lenses - something with properties more or less equivalent to at least a Sironar - N or Symmar - S. Am I missing something? If not, I'm a little surprised that a focal length that would fit so well between the ever-popular 120 and 210 offerings remains unavailable.

  2. #2

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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    The 165 foal lenght will probably be an older lens and may not be up to snuff optically with your other lenses. The difference between 150 and 1265 is pretty small. I would get a newer 150.

    just my thoughts

    steve simmons

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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    Thanks Steve - you're probably right. For awhile I used a 135, as it provided good continuity with my 90, 210, and 305 lenses - but consistently needed something "just a bit wider" - and the 120 has been perfect. But the differences between 150 and 165, as you say, are not that great, and proportionally less than those between a 120 and 135. So maybe I'll try a 150.

  4. #4
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    You could always try a 165mm f/8 Super Angulon - they are quite sharp. The only problem is they are a little on the hefty side - 105mm filters, and around 1600 grams. ;-)

  5. #5

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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    Calumet made a sweet little single coated 165mm in the mid '70's with their Caltar brand line up. It was actually made by Ilex but the last of the crop is found in the early style Copal 0 shutter. It is a tessar design and the one I had for a while was very satisfyingly sharp. That may have been the last of the 165's. A modern-ish coated Dagor would trump the Ilex, and you may have to settle for a 180 to get into the same world as your other modern lenses. An f9 A series Fujinon 180mm is in a class all it's own for sharpness. I have a coated Kodak 170mm f7.7 which is little brother to the common 203mm f7.7 and it blows me away how sharp it is, but I've never seen another coated one. It fits a Copal 0. None of the older stuff has modern style filter threads.

  6. #6

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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    Yeah - my 120 S.A. is a bit hefty as it is - and for this reason I sometimes think I might like to replace this with a 120 Super-Symmar HM at some point. But I really like the qualities of my 120 S.A., and so I'm not sure that I'd give it up.

  7. #7

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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    Jim - I missed your post and was replying to Steve and then Ralph. Yes - I've seen the 165 Caltars, and they come up with some regularity at very decent prices. I could probably just buy one, test it out and re-sell it if it didn't work out. Going to 180 or longer is getting a bit close to my beloved 210 - so I think Steve's idea of the 150 probably makes more sense. Lots of offerings in this F.L. also.

  8. #8
    grumpy & miserable Joseph O'Neil's Avatar
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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    I have a 135mm Rodenstock, and a 180mm Rodenstock. It's a nice jump for me. I do have an older Ilex Anastigmat (spelling) Paragon that is around 162 to 164mm range (once you convert it from inches).

    A noticable jump to be sure form 135mm, but I find I use my newer 180mm more. Something too about the 180mm size I like , maybe because they often cover 5x7, so for 4x5, it has lots of movments.

    If you see one of these Ilex lenses for a decent price, in good shape, it is worth buying,(I got mine for $50 cdn - and shutter is in great shape), but like all Tessars, you have to stop them down (soft at the edge) and while the one i have has some room for movements, it's not much.

    I've used a number of older lenses, including wide field ektars, commercial ektars, etc, and most of these older tessars from the 50's and 60's are pretty good, but unless you have something special like a commercial or WF ektar, most of these regular ektars, wollensaks, ilex, even that schneider tessar that was sold on crown graphics , while all good lenses, you pretty much have to stop them down and you'll find little in the way of movements, especailly compared to newer lenses.

    I don't know of too many other lenses in that range.

    The other thought is like you i have used a couple of 210mm lenses, sold one, (kept the 209mm artar , but I find I use my 180mm more than my 210mm. I've always been puzzled why 210mm is a defacto standard, because I personally find 180mm to be "just right" when composing in the ground glass. It "fills that gap" , at least for me. Either schneider or rodenstock ( I have one of each in 180mm), and hard to say which is better.

    joe
    eta gosha maaba, aaniish gaa zhiwebiziyin ?

  9. #9
    Dave Karp
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    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    John,

    If you ever have a chance, try out an older 125mm f/5.6 Fujinon W, or the current CM-W. The older one (which I have) uses 52mm filters. The newer one, uses 67mm filters, which I am guessing, probably fit most of your other lenses. The newer one also has a larger image circle than the version I have. At any rate, both are smaller than your current 120, and might be worth a try.

  10. #10

    165mm lens recommendations for 4X5

    John,

    I'm going to shake up your whole world (feel free to ignore what I'm about to say). My current lens set for 4x5 shooting is:

    80mm f4.5 Super Symmar XL
    110mm f5.6 Super Symmar XL
    150mm f5.6 APO Sironar-S
    210mm f5.6 APO Symmar
    300mm f9 Nikkor M
    450mm f12.5 Fujinon C

    I am very happy with the quality of all the lenses, the size and weight, and the spacing of the focal lengths. For many years back in the early 1990s, my lens set consited of:

    75mm f4.5 Nikkor SW
    90mm f8 Nikkor SW
    135mm f5.6 Nikkor W
    210mm f5.6 Nikkor W
    360mm/500mm f8/f11 Nikkor T-ED set

    While I liked the 90mm, 135mm, 210mm spacing, I found the 75mm and 90mm a bit too close together and the gap between the 210mm and 360mm a bit wide.

    Then I started down a slippery slope. I acquired a 120mm Super Symmar HM at a favorable price from a friend. I bought it to use on a 6x17 point-n-shoot camera I was building from an old US Navy torpedo camera, but it was such a sweet lens, I also HAD to use it on 4x5. Of course, it was too close to my 135mm to carrry both. So, when I got a good deal on a 150mm f5.6 APO Sironar-S, I bought it and sold the 135mm Nikkor. I ended up replacing my 135mm with two lenses and didn't really address the spacing issue at the wide and long ends - and my lens kit was now getting heavier.

    Along comes Schneider with their fabulous 110mm Super Symmar XL. A wonderful lens that allowed me to replace the 90mm and 120mm and even out my spacing on the wide end a bit. I then bought the 300mm Nikkor M as a long lens for backpacking and eventually combined it with the 450mm Fujinon C to replace the heavier Nikkor telephoto set. The final piece of the puzzle was the 80mm Schneider Super Symmar XL, it's smaller, lighter and has more coverage (and unfortunately more illumination fall-off) than any 75mm on the market.

    It took me a few years to transition from my old lens kit to my new, but I am quite happy with what I have and haven't felt any urge to chance anything for several years now.

    Long story short; you might consider replacing your 120mm Super Angulon with a 110mm Super Symmar XL and then adding a nice modern 150mm lens. The two lenses togther will weigh less than the 120mm Super Angulon and the 110mm will give you just as much coverage, a brighter ground glass and even better performance. The 110mm - 150mm spacing might also work better for you than 120mm - 150mm, which seems a bit close to me. I really like the 110mm focal length on 4x5. It's a nice, gentle wide angle that I find easy to work with. As a bonus, I've also used the same lens on 5x7 and 4x10.

    Kerry

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