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Thread: Digital versus contact print comparison

  1. #1

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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    Hi guys (and Calam), I've got a technical question that maybe someone's looked at. I have a new body of work, all shot on 8x10 film, that I want to print quite small in comparison to my earlier huge prints. These new ones will be 11x14 or so, and I want to print them with as much detail and tonal information as possible. I could use my Epson 9800 of course, and at the 2880 setting that would be pretty dang good. But I'm thinking about contact prints that I've seen over the years, and as many purists have pointed out on this forum, there is just something about contact prints that pretty much blows everything else out of the water.

    So here's my question: Would it be possible to acheive higher-quality results if I had my scans made into 11x14 internegatives using the highest-quality film recorder out there, and then contact printed those onto Type C paper? I think it would depend on how good the film recorders are (I don't know what dpi they are capable of), and then also on the grain and resolving power of Fuji Crystal Archive paper. Does anyone know how these two factors would compare with inkjet prints made at 2880 dpi?

    Any thoughts would be much appreciated, as always.

    ~cj (Seattle)

    www.chrisjordan.com

  2. #2
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    I don't have any experience with this in color, but my black and white prints (carbon pigment quadtone) made at contact print size acutally look better in most cases than contact prints from the same negative. and by better, i mean that they have a greater sense of those qualities that i normally associate with contact prints (the realness of surface textures, the smoothness of tones, the sharpness of details without any harshness, etc.).

    not sure if color printers are good enough to give this same effect, but i'd give it a try before going the more complex/expensive route. I do believe the best film recorders will outdo any printer when it comes to resolution and dynamic range. How that translates into a final print is another story.

  3. #3

    Digital versus contact print comparison

    Hey Chris,

    What finish are you aiming for? Resolution is one thing. But it may be hard to compare a Crystal Archive Matte or Glossy with an inkjet matte finish. If you were printing 8x10, there may be an advantage in tonality with the contact print. The internegative will kill that advantage going to 11x14.

    A good scan and output at 2880 on your 9800 (I'm jealous by the way.....still using a 7600) will give superb results to all but those who like to view prints thru a loupe (or electron microscope!).

    Maybe you can answer a question for me. I read somewhere that you mount your prints onto plexiglass and apply a coating to the surface of the print. What coating are you using?

    Best regards,

  4. #4
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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    Chris, it depends what "quality" means to you.

    To my eye, there's no inkjet print that looks like a contact print (on a traditional photo paper that is - alt-process printing on art papers raises other questions). You might like one or the other, but they're just not the same beast, period.

    I doubt that a C-print made from an 8x10 negative scanned and written out to an 11x14 internegative with a film recorder would pass muster with a real contact print junkie either - you're adding two intermediate optical stages plus an extra physical image carrier plus some enlargement. There's no way that won't affect the look of the print. It will certainly look qualitatively different from an inkjet, too.

    I don't think you can calculate this one on theoretical grounds, based on resolution specifications or anything else. I think you need to have a sample picture printed both ways, and see which you prefer.

  5. #5
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    "I doubt that a C-print made from an 8x10 negative scanned and written out to an 11x14 internegative with a film recorder would pass muster with a real contact print junkie either - you're adding two intermediate optical stages plus an extra physical image carrier plus some enlargement."

    I'm not so sure. Skillfully applied sharpening on a high quality file can be remarkable. I never would have thought a scanned print could look better than a contact print, but now I've seen it, with my own work.

    I also don't think surface is going to be an issue if you're planning to face mount to plexi.

  6. #6

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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    While I have not done this with 8 x 10, I have made 30x40 color images with 4 x 5 drum-scanned transparencies and the resolution and tonality is exceptional. Personally, I don't think you would need to go the extra internegative route. The detail on the 30x40 from a 4 x 5 is stunning and I am quite particular for detail on enlarged images. Honestly, I can see more 'loss' in detail based on my 'focusing' technique between several enlargements....that's how much detail comes through.

  7. #7

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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    The only experience I have is with the Cymbolic Sciences Lightjet 2080 Film Recorder. You can image out to 11x14 film at a maximum of 1016 dpi. One problem you may run into is coming across 11x14 Color Negative Film without some sort of special order. I'm not up to speed on how dpi translates in lpl/mm but I'm sure an 8x10 Drum Scan @ 2000 dpi imaged onto an 11x14 Negative @ 1016 dpi will far exceed what Fuji Crystal Archive and our own eyes can resolve. And oh, you can also write directly to paper on the Lightjet 2080, so you could write out to Fuji Crystal Archive at 1016 dpi and skip the whole interneg, contact process. That far exceeds what at Lightjet 5000 series printer or a Chromira can do.

  8. #8

    Digital versus contact print comparison

    Eric,

    Good rule of thumb for lp/mm & dpi is 2.4 dpi for one lp. This could be as low as about 2.15 dpi / lp but aliasing could become an issue at that level.

  9. #9
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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    I'm not so sure. Skillfully applied sharpening on a high quality file can be remarkable. I never would have thought a scanned print could look better than a contact print, but now I've seen it, with my own work.

    Paul, you've made my point. Depending on what he's hoping to achieve, a scanned negative output to inkjet or internegative for C-print may well look better for Chris's purposes than a contact print would. But it will look different.

    I think there are at least two different questions getting mixed up here. The first is, can you make a print that 's indistinguishable from a contact print using these other methods. I think the answer is no. The second question is, which of these alternative methods will be subjectively most pleasing for Chris's purposes. That question I can't answer.

    There's also a third question, I guess, although Chris seems to be already assuming an answer to it. That's whether contact prints are somehow better in some absolute sense than other types of print. I don't see much point in debating that one, since that's entirely a matter of personal taste. I happen to really like contact prints (though I like enlargements sometimes, too); others don't really care one way or another, or actively prefer the attributes you can get from an inkjet or other method that involves intermediate processing. Nothing wrong with that - may many different flowers bloom!

  10. #10

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    Digital versus contact print comparison

    Hi guys, thanks for all of your interesting input. I realize I left out some details so here they are. My hope is to acheive higher resolution prints than can be gotten from the Epson 9800. The Epson requires interpolation of the image to 360 dpi before printing; then it prints that 360 dpi image out at 2880 (meaning that each pixel is divided into a grid of ink dots). Although many people say that resolution is the limit of what we can see, I have seen many contact prints that just look better-- there is a creamy smoothness that is incredibly beautiful, as if the print had a much finer "dot" pattern than the best digital print.

    So what I am hoping to do is take my 1GB scans, Photoshop them to my taste, and then output a new color negative at 14x16" size, at much higher resolution than 360 dpi. I realize it will be enlarged, so it won't be the quality of the original film, but maybe that difference will be minimal. I am wondering if I then contact print that new negative (which would be generated at 1200 dpi or whatever), might that produce that creamy smooth feeling. Maybe it wouldn't be as sharp and perfect as a real contact print, but it might be better than printing the digital file directly at 360 dpi.

    Further thoughts?

    ~cj

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