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Thread: Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

  1. #11

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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    I've never had trouble with the Epson 3200 film holders as far as Newton rings are concerned. I've also made my own film holder which doens't cut off as much on the edges, but also doesn't grip the film securely. It also doesn't produce newton's rings. It may be that for some reason my film is more rigid.

    The last time I tried the film both sides up and compared, I couldn't tell the difference. Perhaps I should try again.

    I've always assumed that Epson tells you to keep the emulsion side up so the resulting scan won't reverse left and right, not to get a better scan. I believe the scanning software is designed to work with reflective scanning, and without a reverse built in for film, it would normally reverse left and right if the base side were up. Of course, they could have implemented a reversal in the firmware or software when doing film, but they decided not to for some reason. If anyone has any further light to add, please do.

  2. #12
    Jack Flesher's Avatar
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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    >>The 'guide' for 10x8 is just that, a guide. <<

    I just opened my 4990 and yes it is just a guide -- My bad.

    There was an 8x10 "holder" ike I described at the store with a film surface -- it must have been for some othter scanner. Sorry for any confusion.
    Jack Flesher

    www.getdpi.com

  3. #13

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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    I tested my 4990 and found the scans are slightly sharper emulsion side up.

  4. #14

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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    Right you are, Jack! I had exactly the same issue with my 2450: Newton's rings. Loading the trannies emulsion side down seems to keep them from sagging onto the glass, at least during the time I need to scan, and I find the sharpness as good as before, or changed so little as to be no matter.

    On a related note, do these scanners have the ability to change focus? I seem to recall that some scanning software will do this with certain scanners. Vuescan?

  5. #15
    Jack Flesher's Avatar
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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    Well it seems the camps are divided on this subject... To satisfy my own curiosity, I tried a different tranny -- flatter but still a tranny -- and saw virtually no difference scanning emulsion up versus emulsion down. Soooooo... I can only conclude the direction makes a difference sometimes. Use what suits you.

    FTR, I was scanning Provia and Velvia using Silverfast with auto-sharpen set to medium and off, no ICE, no scratch removal, and single-pass scans only. Obviously other film types and other setting combinations could produce different results.

    I did experiment with scan resolution settings and found the following with two different transparencies -- and this was to my eye only so I share this only as an indication and not an absolute: I compared 2400 DPI, 3200 DPI and 4800 DPI, and found that the 2400 DPI scans looked the sharpest, followed by the the 3200 which was slightly but notably softer, and the 4800 DPI setting softer still. I even tried the scan at 4800 DPI and resize to 2400 DPI routine and found -- again to my eye only -- that the base scan at 2400 remained sharper.

    All offered FWIW only and clearly YMMV!

    Cheers,
    Jack Flesher

    www.getdpi.com

  6. #16

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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    I've scanned both ways with the 4990 and never had Newton rings either way. I kind of like the holder, it's a whole lot better than the flimsy piece of crap that came with my Linoscan 1400 and that I had to hold together with electrical tape because it started cracking after a year or so of use. But back to the topic. I've always assumed that Epson recommends base side down so that the image will be correctly displayed on the monitor, not because it had anything to do with Newton rings. However, I do scan with emulsion side down because I've read and heard from people who are supposed to know that the image will be a little sharper that way. It's easy enough to invert the image in Silverfast or Photoshop.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  7. #17
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    Not to toot my own horn here but you guys need to read these posts more. This is old news on the Epsons. I posted this same thing many times starting about 2 years ago about reversing the neg. and flipping it in PS to avoid the sinking middle phenomena. But you knot what works even better? Tape the lid shut and tilt the scanner on its left side to take the weight off the center of the film. The light rides on a rail on the right side. I estimate about a 5% sharper scan. Works like a charm.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  8. #18

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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    I think I referenced that trick of yours in a post recently, Kirk. The budget-priced mechanics of these things probably need all the help they can get, and you can in part make up for some of the cheap plastic by understanding their shortcomings and finding ways to compensate. Let's hope, anyway(!)

  9. #19

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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    Jack,

    I just scanned an image twice, once normal and once flipped (single pass scan). Sure as hell, the flipped version is sharper, in the center and the edges. Thanks for the tip. I will have to try Kirk's suggestion and flip the scanner on its side.

  10. #20

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    Flatbed Scanners -- or "Am I an Idiot?"

    Dunno if you're an idiot, but...

    Buy one of Doug Fisher's MF film holders. Not perfect, but makes scanning _lots_ easier.

    jbh

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