Liberation - Photography as Contemporary Art

[John_4185]

Wouldn't parity=liberty be more of a 'stand-off' where we'd all be taking pictures of the same ol' thing----kind of like painters who adhere to one convention be it impressionism, modernism, etc..., then the next avant guard wave hits with something that blows the previous convention into the weeds and then becomes a convention its self? If I construe this as "liberty" it seems like it is merely liberty from some previously agreed on contrivance.

Don't construe that as liberty, because it ain't. What you describe is the backwards glance of the critics, scholars, historians and curators... stamp collector mentalities.

[Mike H.]

adrian tyler -- "... i was discussing this the other day with an established and very scholarly "contemporary" painter and he expressed envy of people working with photography, his problem being: what is left to discover and explore in the medium of paint?. ...

That's so sad... whether painting, photography, music, poetry or any other expressive medium, to be limited by the "old" which has already been covered reeks of a stale creative life. One should open their eyes and mind and see the "new" out there. It's out there, and it's as wide as the universe and then more. It may be on your mantle, in your trash can, out in the front yard, in a NYC alley, or on a mountain top in Peru, but it's out there.

JJ, I'm like you claim to be -- can't write for crap. Worse yet, can't think for crap most the time. But, I REALLY enjoy trying to keep up with the mental thread you guys (Atherton, Gittings, Kasaian, PaulR, etc.) create. Stretches the outer limits of my artistic thinking. Thanks for the entertainment and mental exercise, guys.

[John Kasaian]

jj,

But stylistic conventions that apply to subject matter did indeed exist and the parameters in which artists worked were paradigms until the paradigms were broken. Take the Neo Classics (Please! As Henny Youngman would say)

IMHO, That great images would be available to all courtesy of digital technology isn't a bad thing as there are plenty of bad images that we can't seem to escape from seeing. If this is "Liberation" as in the 'Liberation of Paris' then I'm all for it. If OTOH its "Liberation" as in being "Liberation from having to actually achieve something artistic" the NY Times didn't clarify that.

[John_4185]

The responses have been enlightening; thank you all. It's lovely to be here.

At this moment, near the end of the day when the last dozen hours of work are caving in upon me while I navigate the horse lattitudes of depressive introspecion - VOILA! Molly brings in hot chinese chicken, a quarter pound of pistachio nuts, and cookie-dough ice cream so that I just become almost intellectually co-opted. Wait. She's got That Look on her face. Call that a complete coop. The hell with Art.

(arnold voice) I'll be bach.

Sometimes the Life of the Mind has to yield to the life of the body.

tired, so tired

[Struan Gray]

Imagine that someone did come up wth a wholly new style of visual expression. Suppose, for example, people start to use the limitations of cheap sensors and heavy jpeg compression to convey emotion to a generation raised on Nintendo graphics? Would you call it photography? Would you give it the same warm welcome you give to ULF wetplate revivers?

On the other hand, photography may be like writing, a mature art. Attempts to create an entirely novel means of expression will simply end up looking forced.

If you have faith in your own taste you shouldn't really care (unless you sit on a public museum's acquisitions comittee). I love drawings and illustration, another area mostly overlooked by the Fine and Contemporary art worlds. I can live with that, and I would be more than happy if my photographs would only show a hint of the creativity I see in the best children's books and fashion drawings.

[John_4185]

Struan On the other hand, photography may be like writing, a mature art. Attempts to create an entirely novel means of expression will simply end up looking forced.

Literature, Art and photograpy are not just about beauty. Collage can work to convey contrasts, for example in literature a dialog between a literate, elderly man and a 'nub' net maven and the same in a photograph mixing the two, for example a classic LF B&W rocks-n-roots picture with a tree made with cellphone camera blended into the centre. Sorry to ruin your appetite for the day, but someone will make a compelling image of that idea.

[Struan Gray]

Where did I mention beauty? What's new about collage?

I have seen compelling images from cellphones. Mostly news - Tsunami pics - but some art too. They usually get sneered at by photographers as 'not photography', hence my first para.

I have heard cello concertos beautifully played on a double bass. Nice, but more about virtuosity than musicality. I find a lot of attempts to be new are like that, hence my second para.

Would you like your stone back Sensei?

[William Mortensen]

"Imagine that someone did come up wth a wholly new style of visual expression. Suppose, for example, people start to use the limitations of cheap sensors and heavy jpeg compression to convey emotion to a generation raised on Nintendo graphics?"

Cell-phone-photography-as-Art is already soooooo last year...

"On the other hand, photography may be like writing, a mature art. Attempts to create an entirely novel means of expression will simply end up looking forced. "

Agreed. Photography, like writing, should seldom rely on a novel means of expression to carry the work. The best writing and photography (in my mind) use style and process as the vehicle to carry the work, and should be appropriate to the work. But when the work only says "look at my digital manipulation/large format virtuosity/etc.", it has crossed over from Art to Craft.

Then again, there is the occassional Allen Ginsberg or Joel Peter Witkin whose novel approach to their Craft is tightly intertwined with their Art.

[tim atherton]

Imagine that someone did come up wth a wholly new style of visual expression. Suppose, for example, people start to use the limitations of cheap sensors and heavy jpeg compression to convey emotion to a generation raised on Nintendo graphics? Would you call it photography? Would you give it the same warm welcome you give to ULF wetplate revivers?

You mean a bit like using the 640x480 Eyemod "camera"

http://www.640x480.net/

(use the backwards and forwards buttons)

http://www.640x480.net/about.html

[Struan Gray]

The point is not that it has been done, but rather to examine your own reaction to it. The web is full of photographers moaning that there is nothing new and simultaneously pouring scorn on anything that does not fit their tidy small view of what photography is. Anything truly new in terms of form or modes of expression is going to require an open mind.

Much of what I have seen done with cellphones is very similar to a lot work with video stills. The poor quality is a deliberate way of avoiding mere discussion of craft. It's meant to be ephemeral - and succeeds.

I think tomorrow's photographers - and curators - will have grown up with a different visual heritage. The teenagers I know have a vocabulary of gesture that is not derived from Lartigue's racing cars and a thousand Loony Tunes, but instead comes from games consoles and MTV eye bites. They accept poor resolution and jerky motion, not as limitations, but as a natural part of the visual language. Fine Art concerns of quality don't matter, in that they are not necessary for communication and empathy.

Mark, I would equate a lot of experimental presentation with oddball typography and punctuation. Emily Dickinson and e.e.cummings are safely in the Canon, but as every schoolchild knows, imitate them too often and you'll start getting D's. Sometimes it works, and works - literally - in a wonderful way. Other times it's just irritating.