Plate / Clamp system, which is best for LF

[bglick]

For years, I have been seeking the ultimate plate/clamp system for LF cameras. Specially big cameras, whereas when you are seating the camera on the tripod head, and you can NOT see what is happening below.

The best I have found so far, is the bogen Hexagon system with quick release clamp. The reason I like this type of system is, you have an initial spring loaded clamp to assist in blindly seating the camera plate into the clamp. Even though it will jiggle, it will not fall out. Then, you simply tighten the lever for a tight hold.

Now, this is good, however, it's not flawless. You can seat the hex plate into the clamp, feel the spring loaded clamp engage, then tighten the lever, and think everything is secure. However, since you did not visualy see this occur, a small % of the time, the hex plate "edges" on one side of the hex, can be clamped to the "edges" of the clamp, i.e. plate is NOT fully seated / secure. Then, you are operating under a false sense of security. Everything feels tight, but if you pick up the tripod to change composure, the camera can easily fall out - OUCH!

The beveled edge concept, also employed on Arca style clamps, in most cases, forces the plate into the clamp if not properly positioned by the user. And most often this does occur and the benefit of bevel design is appreciated. This beveled design is extra insurance the clamp will properly seat the plate when the user does not fully seat the plate on all sides. However, when failure occurs, as described above, the user has no means of sensing this failure, other then visual inspection, which we all get lazy and overconfident and do not employ consistently. It would be nice if the lever would NOT clamp tight if the plate is NOT fully seated in the clamp. This would let us know, there is a problem, re seat, look visualy, etc. In a counterproductive subconcious level, the beveled edges create too much confidence as they work properly 98%+ of the time, but the lack of a fail safe sytem has caused some catastrophes.

Any other plate / clamp systems out today that solves these issues? I thought Really Right Stuff (RRS) would have licked this problem, but they haven't.

TYIA

[David A. Goldfarb]

I like Arca-Swiss style plates and clamps, but with or without a clamp, I often find it easiest to tilt the tripod head forward to the position it would be in if the camera were pointing straight down and then attach the camera, so I don't have to do it blind.

On the 11x14" flatbed, though, I haven't found a QR system that works for me yet. I might have some sort of custom plate made, maybe 4x6" that screws into the camera bed and has an Arca-style dovetail.

On my Tech V, I've got a short plate on the body and a longer plate on the bed, so that with a long clamp, I can slide the camera from one plate to the other, both to improve the balance of the camera on the tripod and to use as an ersatz macro rail.

[Paul Butzi]

Really Right Stuff are good - they are good to do business with, have fine products, prompt delivery. But they are making clamps and plates that are conformant to the Arca-Swiss style of quick release. They make them in a nearly infinite array of sizes, including many made to fit specific cameras and lenses. But they're just very well made Arca-Swiss style plates and clamps.

The trick to using the Arca-Swiss style of clamp and plate is to NOT open the clamp up fully and then drop the camera (and plate) down into the clamp from the top.

Instead, open the clamp only enough to allow the dovetail plate to slide in the clamp, then slide the camera/plate out lengthwise. When mounting, tip the camera up so you can see the end of the plate and the clamp, and align them, then slide the plate lengthwise into the clamp until you hit the safety stop at the end of the plate, then tighten the clamp.

This prevents the problem of tightening the clamp with the plate askew, as you describe.

Really Right Stuff plates have rounded corners to make it easier to get the plate into the clamp using this technique.

I've been using Arca-Swiss style clamps and plates (from both Really Right Stuff and Kirk) for more than a decade, and I've never had failure due to the 'plate tipped' scenario you describe.

[Harley Goldman]

I don't think this will apply to Bill, but if you are getting a ballhead with a clamp system and you own an Arca camera, do not get a lever clamp system. The Arca rail does not fit. You need to get the screw knob type tightening system. It does not make sense, since the systems are all "Arca compatible", but that is the way it is.

[Frank Petronio]

Second that - the "quick" lever clamps for the Arca system are not as relaible or compatible as the old screw knobs.

If you really want luxury, invest in an Arca-Swiss camera and slide the entire assembly into the clamping system. For that feature alone it is worth it - infinitely adjustable and very solid.

I don't think the Arca system is perfect but there is none better. I tend to favor the Kirk plates over RRS because RRS never keeps their plates in stock. I used to feel bad, thinking that Kirk was a knock off of the RRS, but then I realized that RRS is simply piggybacking off Arca. Arca never got around to improving their plates properly...

[Ted Harris]

I have tried the Bogen system .... almost had the tipover disaster a few times so I switched to the Horseman system .... totally solid but the clamps weigh more than some of the cameras I wanted to use 'em on ..... so I gave in and went to the Arca system, that was some 10 years ago and I have not looked back. I have an assortment of plates, some from Arca and a bunch from small, no name shops that just do goo dCNC machining and turn out fine plain vanilla plates at a reasonable cost. No complaints.

[clay harmon]

Dick Arentz turned me on to the Cine 60 QR head. This is the one that they use on TV/Movie cameras. It is very fast and easy to use, and can hold my 12x20 tilted over at 90 degrees. They occasionally pop up on ebay. They are also amazingly light considering the amount of weight they will handle.

[Paul Kent]

Follow-up to Harley's comment: the problem with "Arca-compatible" lever clamp systems is small variations in the dimensions of the dovetail plates between different manufacturers. The genuine Arca Swiss lever clamp (that I own) is adjustable via a thumb wheel, and should be able to cope with the variations. Obviously, their clamp fits their camera rails.The Really Right Stuff (RRS) clamp is not adjustable, and so has problems with a few plates/rails. The friendly RRS folks highlight this on their webpage.

I worry about the longevity of the Arca lever clamp, although I have had no problems, since the lever feels weak. The RRS clamp appears more solidly built, but is not adjustable.

[bglick]

Paul, I like your system of sliding the plate into the Arca clamp vs. dropping plate in from above... this eliminates the "edge on edge" mishap. For most cameras this is easy and much safer, of course. But, as a side note, you must surrender use of RRS's set screws on the plates, which prevent the forward / rearward movement once the plate is dropped in from above. This is a nice safety feature, it is used on my Wimberly Gimbal head, which already saved one catastrophe when someone was using my gear.

But for 810 cameras (non rail type) this method is troublesome. I set the tripod height so that I can see the ground glass without bending or standing on my toe tips, therefore, the camera plate is being seated about chest level. Now, try to hold the awkward camera, then bend your body almost 90 degrees to see it slide in the clamp..... not easy..... without visualization, lots of misses. Hence why the Bogen Hex "drop in" system is still easier, albeit with some risks, IMO, with large box type cameras.

This just made me think.... possibly a modified Arca clamp with a new technique would be ideal. Install a stop on one end of the Arca style clamp, which now allows for one sided entry only. Then, tilt the ball head, or tripod head, 90 degrees with open entry side facing the sky. Slide the camera plate into the clamp with lens down. (this is for easy removal, i.e. pulling camera rear towards you) It's all visual and no human acrobatics required. The plate is now secure but not tight, however, both hands are NOW free and the camera is secure. Tighten clamp knob while still watching, then turn camera upright. To remove camera, just loosen knob and pull camera back towards you.

Hmmmmmm..... this may be the solution I have been looking for. With the Bogen Hex system, sideward entry would be nearly impossible. I am tired of bending over while trying to hold the camera atop the clamp. So a combination of Pauls suggestion of never fully opening the jaws, and my stop on one end of the clamp solves most all problems. EXCEPT, when removing the camera, if the camera is slightly tilted towards the ground and we don't realize it. It only takes a few degrees of tilt for a catastrophy to happen once the clamp is loosened. Quite often we are disoriented by not standing on level ground, not looking at level horizons, etc.

Ahhhh, a fix for this too.... the plate and the clamp can be machined with very thin opposing ridges (teeth), that will not bite on insertion direction, but will bite (lock) in removal direction. To remove plate, loosen clamp just enough to allow a slight "lift" of the plate from the clamp base, which will separate the ridges. This will require a tiny bit of extra precision during removal, but IMO the safety factor is well worth the tiny extra effort.

It seems this hybrid system (by hybrid, I mean, Pauls suggestion of never fully opening jaws, my suggestions of a clamp stop on one end, 90 degree head position for insertion and oppposing ridges on plate & clamp) will solve all the current problems....



1. Eliminates body bending during seating process.

2. Enables visual confirmation of BOTH insertion / clamping.

3. Once inserted, camera can be SEEN in safe position, AND both hands are free to tighten.

4. Much easier removal as camera can only move towards your body, vs. Hex system.

5. Safety ridges prevent accidental sliding after clamp is loosened. Which if inserted properly, with lens down, will only slide into your body. (I rather break a rib then drop my gear)



This would require minimal machining work vs. designing a new clamp / plate system. The only hitch I can think of, is the height of the ballhead or tripod head must be high enough, whereass in its 90 degree position, the camera body will not hit the tripod. Of course, you can always elect to use less then 90 degrees if the camera bumps the tripod. Any thoughts? Any additions?

If I elect to have this done, any suggestions on whose clamps / plates would be best to start with?

TYIA

[Paul Butzi]

All of my RRS and Kirk plates either have no safety stop, or have a stop at one end only. So I never have a problem sliding the plate in.

In general, I've found that since the weight of the camera is almost never symmetric left/right, when you loosen the clamp just a bit, the camera slumps sideways and thus is held by the clamp, even if the clamp is not tight.

With a plate that has the dovetail corners on the entry end rounded, it's possible to slip the plate into the clamp WITHOUT looking - that is, you just need to get one corner of the plate into the open end of the clamp, and the plate sort of guides itself into the clamp from there on.

If you're worried about cameras coming out of the clamp and falling, you might consider what the late Barry Sherman did - he had small cable tethers attached to the cameras that had a loop in the free end. He'd slip the loop over the tripod head, then mount the camera on the arca-swiss clamp on his B1. In the event that the camera slipped from the clamp, it would be caught by the tether before hitting the ground. When I asked Barry about it, he said it was just paranoia since he'd never had a camera slip from the clamp.