Hi All,
For those interested, the new 7x17 Shen-Hao camera is up on their website (www.shen-hao.com) with some limited specs and a couple of photos. It is pretty interesting, appearing somewhat based on the Phillips design w/rear focus knob. Too bad it is close to 4 grand but if anyone is interested I can put an order in for you. Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com.
Emile,
The camera looks interesting. They seem to have "borrowed" design elements from both Phillips and Ebony. So, have they raised the price again? Also, any idea how much it weighs?
Thanks,
Kerry
I don't know about the rest of you guys but this blatant design rip off on Shen Hao's part bothers me to no end. First, they riped off Ebony, now its Philips. Who's next? Wisner ? Lotus? Canham?
This is all too common in China: Spend nothing on R&D, rip off a good design, take the money and run. There's no way I will buy anything from Shen Hao - ever.
I feel exactly the same as Daniel does. Dick Phillips has spent a lot of time and sweat perfecting his designs and these guys just come along and steal his ideas. I will never buy or recommend Shen-Hao because of this.
That's about a thousand more than the earlier projected price. What happened?
I spoke to Dick Phillips last week about the problem of copy-catting others designs, his in particular. He didn't seem too happy about it but seemed accepting of it as a fact of life. Last year I had my copywrited music stolen in it's exact form in Nepal. My CD's are all over that area of the world and I don't get a dime. Guaranteed it will always happen when there is a good thing out there. But I don't think Dick plans to make 7x17's anymore so at least the design will continue. If you don't think this kind of thing happens here just talk to some musicians who deal with record companies or authors and their publishing houses. The price for the 7x17 is $3700- and by the time you pay for shipping and customs and and misc bank expenses it will probably come to at least 4 grand. The world ain't perfect but at least there are people still making ULF....
I for one am glad that there are options in ULF>
Nobody has copied the Boxster? Buy a miata? A 380Z? A BMW Z4? The Audi TT? None are a Porsche, neither is a Shen Hao a Phillips. Is a Porsche Cayenne a VW Touraeg? Look similar...drive COMPLETELY differently. When the market supply cannot meet demand at a price point.....the market fills the gap. Shen Hao built a 7 x 17 because no one else can supply one new in a reasonable timeframe at that price point. Did they perhaps borrow some elements of other designs, with some twists of their own? Looks like it. Condemn it? Then we might as well condem just about everything we purchase.
Hmmm, what if I want to take a picture of a scene just like, or similar to an Ansel Adams scene? And perhaps sell it? Let's not go there.
I was looking for a 7 x 17 recently (used, hard to find). New, next to impossible, unless you want to wait 12 months to more than a year. I got lucky and got one of Phillips last 7 x 17's. It is outstanding, fantastic, can't say enough good things about it. But, the only other option was used (uncertain as to availability), or the Shen Hao....or wait 12 months to 18 months....
If I could not have gotten the Phillips, would I have been happy with the Shen Hao? My guess is, YES, because I could actually enjoy making 7 x 17's today, not a year or two from now.
At least someone will be providing options for ULF into the future....
In my book there is a big difference between being inspired by a unique design and blatantly reverse-engineering a product to produce a direct copy without any permission, compensation or acknowledgement to the original creator. One can look at any number of similar items, sports cars included, and see many similarities. Manufacturers see some element of a competitors prodcut that they like, and produce their own version that is different enough that it adds diversity to the market. That's fine. But this rubs me raw. Everyone is free to make up their own minds on this. Just expressing my personal opinion. I have a Phillips 8x10 and do know that it would be very difficult to duplicate what Dick has done, quality-wise. Let Shen-Hao do their thing. I totally agree that it is great that someone is producing cameras for the ULF market. But It's not WHAT they have done that seems wrong; it's HOW it has been done. Because this is how things are does not mean that it is right.
Have to agree with Scott on this one.......reverse engineering has been going on forever. Talk to any big manufacturer out there they'll tell you their first sales of a new product line are bought by their competitors. That's a fact whether you agree with it or not.
Then they strip them and find out the secrets and try and do something similar or better if they think there is something to be gained. If the product has patents attached they try and re engineer around it.
Sorry guys.....this is a fact of life.........US and European companies have always done it. The main problem with the Aisans is blantant rip off of interlectual property........that's illegal, copying isn't.
Field cameras have design elements similar with each other, so who copied who and does it matter?
The Shen-Haos I've seen don't make any improvements over the originals they copy. They simply use cheaper labor and materials, while cutting corners on craftsmanship, without having to pay very much for the R&D. Since the 7x17 doesn't use that much more material or labor than a 8x10, they are clearly exploiting the market by charging less than the originals but still jacking up the price to make more of a margin.
Go ahead and buy one if you like. But when Ebony, Phillips, Linhof, Arca-Swiss, and Canham are gone, don't complain.
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