Limited edition, not really that limited ?

[Oren Grad]

It's not even a safe bet that a poster edition will be made from a print; it may well be made from an original chrome or from a scanned negative.

Good point.

I think the reason the attribute of "originality" is attached to the print is that that the negative by itself isn't enough to determine what the print will look like - even people like me who are allergic to local manipulation still have to choose a paper, contrast grade, developer, toner, etc. In that sense, the negative isn't quite analogous to the printing plate or the lithographer's stone.

One could ask whose "hand" is responsible for the print if a modern-day Ansel Photoshops the picture to his satisfaction, then asks his assistant to take his place at the workstation to click the "Print" button and replenish paper and ink. But I'm not sure that conceptually that's any different from the vintage Ansel handing an exposed sheet of paper to an assistant to run through the fix and wash, or a gravure artist having an assistant help with the press, or many other comparable examples that you could think of.

The search for an unambiguous shorthand is really the challenge here, in part because any terminology is sure to be abused as some sellers push the envelope to gain an advantage with unwary buyers. But if one is selling a print, it's not hard to explain in a sentence or two where it came from and how it was made. That should be the standard of responsible business practice, allowing the buyer to decide for himself what types of provenance he values.

[Oren Grad]

In that sense, the negative isn't quite analogous to the printing plate or the lithographer's stone.

Or maybe I'm just being ignorant about gravure, lithography, etc. - I guess there must be plenty of choices of ink, paper, etc. for those processes as well, which ought to make the print itself definitive for those media too.

[Steve Wadlington]

I haven't seen any current prints from the AA Gallery. About 20 years ago I saw 8x10 reprints at the gallery that were wretched. Dark and muddy, really embarassing.

This my first post here. I recently was overcome with the urge to pull out my view camera which I hadn't use in 25 years. Oddly enough, the purchase of a Nikon D7o digital last year, brought back the pleasure of photography. Now I'm wanting more definition in the images, which wasn't quite there in the digcam.

[steve_782]

"Limited edition" is a marketing ploy with most forms of printing including lithography, gravure, wood block, and etching. When an artist limits a lithograph for example to 25 or 100 or whatever number (within reason) they're engaging in a marketing ploy..."

Not if it is a fine art lithograph made by drawing directly on a stone or plate; and then printed. There is a real limited run on these type of lithographs as the grain in the stone or plate begins to break down after about 75 prints. This can be easily seen in the prints where textures change or fine details are lost, especially in areas made with washes.

In other areas, the stone or plate will begin to block as the grain breaks down. This is because raw stone or the raw plate is exposed in the areas where the grain has broken down. Therefore, the stone or plate is no longer etched in that area and there is no gum layer adsorbed to the surface. The ink is not repelled in these areas and they block up. Once the areas are filled, it is nearly impossible to recover the areas because of the damage and changes caused by attempting to clean and then re-etch the areas.

Etching plates undergo much the same type of breakdown as details are filled in or worn off from the pressure and friction. While the limited edition may used as a marketing ploy for some type of prints, it is definitely NOT so for fine art lithographs, etchings, woodblock prints, or linoleum block prints. There is a true limited life (in number) of prints that can be made before the image changes from the printing process itself.

With fine art lithographs done with stones, after the edition is made the stones are reground after printing so there is no way to make additional prints. When plates are used, the plates may be stored for some length of time, but it is my experience that the plates cannot be stored for an unlimited amount of time without lacquering the image to fix it. This causes another set of problems that can result in changes to the image. In most cases, when printing from original plates, the artist will not want the plates stored because of the changes that are inherent in the lacquering process - and the plates are destroyed.

So, once you are done making a fine art lithographic edition, you cannot make anymore - that seems fairly limited to me.

[Pascal Quint]

this is a perfect example of the sort of commercial and ethical situation you can get yourself in because of the "unnatural" or false nature of such limited editions. In this case not photographs, but books from M. Smith's Lodima Press. What happens when you want to make more from an edition because it appears more sucessful than you thought at first?

http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20596

(i almost bought into the edition. I am glad I did not)