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Thread: Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

  1. #111

    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    I am sure you are aware that the inks and papers for ink jet prints are more expensive than pt/pd solutions and papers.

    Actually, no, I don't know that. I know what my costs are for silver printing (You have disputed them in the past, but they are based on my notes on material costs and usage, so you are wrong). I have carefully tracked my costs for inkjet printing, in the same way.

    I haven't made pt/pd prints, and have only vague ideas of what the costs would be like when producing prints in any quantity larger than onesies and twosies.

    So, if we leave these expenses aside, how much do you think it is enough to get paid for your time spent making the prints?

    It doesn't matter what I think is enough. There's an optimum price, and it doesn't really matter what I think I ought to be paid, the optimum is set by demand and supply. My contention is that the profits to be made from selling more prints at lower prices are larger than those made from selling fewer prints at higher prices. That's supported by my recent experience. If you have experience with adjusting the prices of your work, I'm eager to hear it.

    You have just admitted that once you are done with your master file, making the rest of the prints is just a matter of clicking "print"....so then, are you saying that the extra time spent in the darkroom is the only reason why a silver print is more valuable? If so, isnt this the argument that a hand crafted item has an intrinsic greater value which you and many others here have told us is not true?

    I'm saying that, because the production costs for each additional print for a silver print are higher, the optimum price is likely to be higher as well, assuming that the seller/producer is rational and values his time at some price above zero.

    That would be true even if the production costs of the silver print were higher because they required an expensive material, rather than they required quite a lot of time.

    I could, for instance, produce silver prints by making a digital contact negative and running the paper through a dry to dry processor. Such prints would, in fact, have an optimum price point quite a bit lower than hand made silver prints - a fact which has not escape the attention of people like Brooks Jensen.

    In other words, the fact that Huntington Witherill prices silver prints higher than inkjet prints is likely to be a simple matter of that being the way to make the maximum amount of money, rather than some judgement on the abstract value of the material used to make the prints.

  2. #112

    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    Thanks for the critique Jorge,

    I too like the one you picked as your favorite. The final print went for about what 8 EBay auction prints seem to go for.....but most important, it was what the couple wanted & loved....so I'm good with that.

    The other one you enjoyed with the buildings that you find falling towards each other was sold to 80 offices of a Canadian chartered bank for some of their branches in British Columbia. They were all ordered at 16x24 size. Unfortunately the color doesn't show that well in an uncalibrated web browser....but you get the idea.

    Unfortunately, none of the current shots were done with my LF gear. All the shots currently on our website where taken with either of a Canon D30, Canon 10D, Canon 1DS, or Mamiya RB67. Once I finally organize some of the final photos for our site, we will be placing our favorites up rather than a quick grab bag that is presently there. For now though, it works.

    Thanks for support. I'm glad you're now taking a more positive tone. It would be nice to see some of your work on line as well. Could you point us to the website? Here's mine again for reference:

    www.luttmannphotography.com

    Kindest regards,

  3. #113
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    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    I second that request Jorge. You already know my web address: www.CameraArtist.com so what's yours? I'd love to see what you show at your shows.

  4. #114

    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    Actually, no, I don't know that. I know what my costs are for silver printing (You have disputed them in the past, but they are based on my notes on material costs and usage, so you are wrong). I have carefully tracked my costs for inkjet printing, in the same way.

    lol....you must be thinking since we dont like each other I always dispute what you say. I have never disputed your price comparison between ink jet print and silver.

    I haven't made pt/pd prints, and have only vague ideas of what the costs would be like when producing prints in any quantity larger than onesies and twosies.

    Making more than one print keeps the cost the same, just like with ink jet printing. You use the same amount consistently.

    My contention is that the profits to be made from selling more prints at lower prices are larger than those made from selling fewer prints at higher prices. That's supported by my recent experience. If you have experience with adjusting the prices of your work, I'm eager to hear it.

    I am not disputing this Paul, this is my same experience. But you are not answering my question. You have stated that the cost of making a silver print in the darkroom is higher, thus the higher price irrespective of quality, if so, doesnt this mean that a hand made print has an intrinsic higher value just because of the virtue of being hand made and the time spent doing it?

    I really think you are avoiding the question, but even so, why price them higher. If as you say we have to look at supply and demand then the price of the print should reflect the cost of making it. Lets say an ink jet print costs $1 to make, and a silver print a $1.5 after all the accounting is done. One would think that pricing them at $50 is an outrageous markup, if all we are looking at is economics, then no print, regardless of beauty, content, or who made it are worth more than $10 each. The fact that the silver print cost 50 cents more is irrelevant, both prints are in fact really cheap to make, so there must be another reason why one is priced higher than another one.

    Your turn.

  5. #115

    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    The final print went for about what 8 EBay auction prints seem to go for

    LOL..yeah right, if this is true you sure saw them coming. If what people like is flat gray prints with fake phosotoshped borders and fake colors then I should be moving to Canada, I would get rich... :-)

    The other one you enjoyed with the buildings that you find falling towards each other was sold to 80 offices of a Canadian chartered bank

    uh huh......Kincade sells a lot of prints too...does not make them good..... :-) Then again just goes to show that quality and marketing are two different things. You seem to be good at one and terrible at the other one.

    Thanks for support. I'm glad you're now taking a more positive tone. It would be nice to see some of your work on line as well.

    Obviously sarcasm is lost on you......think again.

    Now, what are you doing in a LF forum when your shots are all digital and you have no LF work? Could it be that it is no good?....nahhh....

    As to a web site, sorry to disappoint you and Darr, I prefer to spend my time promoting my work with museums, galleries and magazines, a web site is a waste of time for me, but I will make sure to let you know next year when I have my prints published in another photo magazine, please let me know when you have yours published and it what magazine.

  6. #116
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    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    DL: If I'm taking a landscape shot for example, are you telling me that improved resolution, low noise, and dynamic range are not important.....that you're work is better served by a lower quality capture device. Because, if that is what you're saying, then I think you already know how utterly stupid your statement sounds.

    I wasn't really looking for a new capture device--my 4x5 camera works quite well enough, thanks. Anyway, what I'm saying is that it's not yours or anyone else's place to decide for me what's important to my artistic expression or with which materials to express it--sometimes noise can be a beautiful thing. Photography is not all about clarity.

    www.tomwestbrook.com/gallery

  7. #117

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    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    Los Atlantes is a nice photograph, but it is certainly inherently weakened by the placement of the column at the right. If the composition were adjusted it would certainly be an excellent photograph.

    Unfortunately it becomes an example of the sort of landscape or mountain photographer where we get a quite nice picture, but the photographer goes on to say how they had to trek for 13 hours with a 65lb backpack of gear to be there just in time for dawn, but they had to fight of a grizzly on the way and the grizzly snapped off one of the legs of their tripod in the fight, so that's why it's not quite as sharp as they would have liked, and the grizzly wrestling also delayed them a bit so they missed the very best light just as the sun hit the horizon... but you can imagine the picture if all those things hadn't happened. Problem is, no one cares how difficult the picture was to take, how much sweat was poured getting their or how much virtuosity was displayed on balancing the 11x14 on the head of a passing and cooperative 10 year old. The photograph is weaker because of those limitations. But in the photographers mind he convinces himself it's still a good photograph because of what went into getting it.

    In this case the way to get the picture is pay whatever is needed to make sure the permit system runs smoothly, or buy the influence to get one, or find someone to run interference with the Tourism Police while you sneak in a tripod and set up the shot. That way you get the better photograph.

    Otherwise you end up with what are at worst excuses for a second to best photograph, or at the best, a set of reasons why it's not the best possible image.

  8. #118

    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    Right you are Tom. Some of my favorite shots I take are street photos, converted to B&W with xtra grain added. Everything has it's place, & I'm not saying 4x5 film is bad by any means.

    Nice B&W work in the industrial section of your site.

    Cheers,

  9. #119

    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    LOL...not at all Paddy, I simply explained why the tech's suggestion was dumb. As I said before and you failed to read or ignored as usual is the fact that I am happy with the print and how it looks in 8x10 and not a monitor. You, as usual, assume to know more than what you really do and make an ass of yourself. Specially with this comment:

    In this case the way to get the picture is pay whatever is needed to make sure the permit system runs smoothly, or buy the influence to get one, or find someone to run interference with the Tourism Police while you sneak in a tripod and set up the shot. That way you get the better photograph.

    Do you really think you are the first one to think of this? Are you the kind of (and there is really no other appropiate word) a**hole who thinks that you can come to Mexico and "run interference" with the police and do all kinds of illegal things? Do you really think that I would not gladly pay the permit if it was a simple matter of just going and getting it? Are you, once more, one of those a**holes who think you can come to Mexico and "buy" influence, and do you think it is that cheap?

    Really, your ignorance of Mexico and your insulting assumptions are really appaling. Let me tell you, if you ever come down to Mexico let me know so I can have the proper reception for you so you can show me how to "buy" influence, run interference with the police, etc, etc.

  10. #120

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    Inkjet and Hunington Witherill

    "Problem is, no one cares how difficult the picture was to take, how much sweat was poured getting their or how much virtuosity was displayed"

    - Paddy, I disagree with you here, the one person who cares about this stuff is the photographer who poured all of this sweat. If the result is not the best it could have been or a second rate photograph, it is still important to the photographer as a learning step. I think all in all, most photographers are their own worst critics and never really believe they are doing everything perfect. I know that I look at every frame and pick out what I could do better and use that as a learning experience so the next time the end result can be better. An excuse about why maybe a photo might not be a great photo(how many are really) maybe just a story about the process of photography. After all, isn't the personal journey more important than the destination.

    BTW, I really think all the personal attacks here aren't needed for a healthy debate, if anything the offender's points are dismissed by most readers.

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