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Thread: Serious Digital Printing DPI

  1. #11

    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    Have you compared the actual cost of materials for inkjet printing to that of materials for silver printing, taking into account necessary auxiliaries like chemicals for silver and ink cartridges for inkjet, and assuming like-for-like comparisons (e.g., FB vs FB paper)? You may find that they're a lot closer than you think.

    If you are experienced and comfortable printing in silver then I'm going to be a contrarian and suggest that you print your book in silver, on RC paper. Inkjet has a steep learning curve to get high-quality results and is an expensive medium just like silver is. Scanning, too, is a demanding craft with many traps for the inexperienced. It seems that you are only just getting started in both. If your goal is to be sure of having a high-quality thesis presentation with a minimum of grief, now is not the time to be learning two new, demanding processes from scratch. If scanning-plus-inkjet is to be your path, then November is not a "big head start" for a product needed in April.

    I have access to a few resources for free my only out of pocket expense will be paper. I am also working with a highly experienced mentor step by step.

    I am asking questions here before I get started. I still have the option of printing silver but that also introduces additional costs like dry mounting sheets to each other if I want a 2 sided spreadm. RC I don't believe would handle the heat well.

  2. #12

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  3. #13
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    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Quote Originally Posted by RodinalDuchamp View Post
    I have access to a few resources for free my only out of pocket expense will be paper. I am also working with a highly experienced mentor step by step.

    I am asking questions here before I get started. I still have the option of printing silver but that also introduces additional costs like dry mounting sheets to each other if I want a 2 sided spreadm. RC I don't believe would handle the heat well.
    RC can be dry mounted, laminated, etc.

    Anyway, I'd make one last suggestion. Ask your mentor if he or she can scan one of your 35mm negatives and make one 10x15 inkjet print for you, using whatever scanner and printer are at your disposal and whatever paper he or she recommends, to show you what is possible. Make a silver print of the same negative yourself, to your satisfaction. Compare the two. If you like the inkjet print - you don't have to like it better than the silver print, you just have to like it enough to be comfortable with it for your thesis presentation - then have at it!

    Whichever way you go, good luck and enjoy!

  4. #14

    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    RC can be dry mounted, laminated, etc.

    Anyway, I'd make one last suggestion. Ask your mentor if he or she can scan one of your 35mm negatives and make one 10x15 inkjet print for you, using whatever scanner and printer are at your disposal and whatever paper he or she recommends, to show you what is possible. Make a silver print of the same negative yourself, to your satisfaction. Compare the two. If you like the inkjet print - you don't have to like it better than the silver print, you just have to like it enough to be comfortable with it for your thesis presentation - then have at it!

    Whichever way you go, good luck and enjoy!

    If I had no budget limit, I would 100% make the book with silver prints. However, being a broke and I mean broke grad student the digital option still seems to be viable since I really don't have to worry about buying printers, scanners, or ink. I have seen some amazing digital results not saying that they arrive at the same quality of silver but for this project I think it should get close enough. The alternative is hanging 15-20 prints which will be much more expensive and what will I do with all that framed work afterwards. the book seems more reasonable and will function as a sort of portfolio after the show.

  5. #15
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Listening to too many gurus can get confusing. I'd simply follow whatever the person you're working with suggests and is familiar with.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  6. #16

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    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Having made quite a few one-off books as well as doing separations & design for offset printed photobooks... One, don't make it too big - unless you know what you are doing bookbinding-wise, there's a better than good chance it'll fall apart pretty fast - does it need to be bigger than 9.5x12" or even 8x10?
    Two, the double sided papers have to be chosen for grain direction - the 220gsm photo rag is nice, but watch out for offsetting from opposing pages after binding. There is a double sided Moab paper that is available in rolls as far as I know - the 190gsm weight is the one you want. Alternative is to tip-in prints made on one paper into the book printed on a different paper, but unless you use very light papers for the images, you'll need to design your binding to compensate for the thickness of the prints.
    Three, I'd seriously suggest you look at 'sewn boards' bindings - it's not technically difficult, but looks professional & doesn't need expensive equipment & is durable.
    If all you have to scan your negs is an Epson flatbed, that's going to be a bit of a problem if you want the best possible results. You should be aiming to be outputting files in the 400-600ppi range at final size for the best results with current inkjet technology - especially in the book format where people tend to look much more closely than on a gallery wall.

  7. #17

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    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    If all you have to scan your negs is an Epson flatbed, that's going to be a bit of a problem if you want the best possible results.
    Yes, but only for the 35mm shots OP mentions, for that a dedicated roll film scanner like a plustek 8xxx could be recommended, for example. For also mentioned MF and up it's a different situation...

  8. #18
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    Yes, yes, and it depends on the output size and the type of printer. As I said, Epson printers, in the highest quality mode, can accept a file up to 720 ppi at output size. (This is not to be confused with the dpi output specification of the printer! There is not a 1 to 1 mapping of input file values to dots of ink.) Other sizes are converted to that size by the printer. So, scanning at 1440 will give a 2x enlargement, 2160 a 3x enlargement, 2880 a 4x enlargement....without require the printer to do an re-sizing.

    I scan 35mm at 6000 spi on a scanner that can really reach that level. I do so because that gives the best rendition of photo grain with my scanner.
    This is in essence why I chose 4200dpi for my 4x5 scans. It is 14X300dpi since I use Canon. I then down sample to 300dpi at the size I want to print. This may not be the most exquisite way of doing it, but it does work for me, especially in post-processing. I almost never run into issues with processing my photo to final image short of screwing up the color cast on occasion and over doing something like saturation and such. No posterization etc. Granted they are huge files when I am done, but the print file size is manageable. I just keep the huge working file for archiving unless I make a print run of something then I keep that print file.

  9. #19

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    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Yes, but only for the 35mm shots OP mentions, for that a dedicated roll film scanner like a plustek 8xxx could be recommended, for example. For also mentioned MF and up it's a different situation...
    I'm slightly surprised at the OP's lack of access to high end scanners - especially at a postgraduate level, most art schools etc have at least Hasselblad/ Imacon or high end CCD. And as for no difference - the image on the left (both zoomed to 100%) will support 2.8-3.4x at the highest inkjet resolutions, the one on the right is an Epson that can focus, flat out at what's supposed to be 2400ppi. And the scanner on the left can go much, much higher in resolution.


    More to the point, at a postgrad level especially, you want to produce the best work you can at the best possible level of quality - unless the cheap flatbed aesthetic is part of that - because that work may play a significant role in establishing you as an artist, or at least getting you some relevant work that pays the bills.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails QED-Scanner.jpg  
    Last edited by interneg; 12-Nov-2018 at 17:33.

  10. #20

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    Re: Serious Digital Printing DPI

    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    postgraduate level
    Interneg, in 35mm a hassie extracts x10 more optical pixels (if the shot has the IQ) than a V850, in LF a V850 extracts more optical pixels than a hassie. This is because each machine has different limiting factors for each format. The V850 has an scan width of 5.9" and this limits optical performance in 35mm while the hassie can zoom in to a 1" scan width.

    But for sheets limiting factor of the hassie is the low pixel count of its linear sensor: 8k, while the V850 sporting a 40k is not limited by the sensor. I'm pretty sure you can count from zero to 40.800, so you should understand what happens.

    For MF it happens this, you know, this test is fair: https://petapixel.com/2017/05/01/160...s-500-scanner/

    Of course a hassie is an amazing pro machine and a V850 not, but V850 has a way stronger linear sensor, that is not used in the hassie because it's slow for a pro machine.

    With that I've said all...

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