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Thread: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

  1. #11
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    Here is another shot, If I have time tonight, I will make a 100% crop, but this was taken with Tmax100 at night 30 minute exposure (15 minutes measured) with 210mm G-Claron lens at f/11. I scanned in same as fall colors image and sharpened the same. One thing to note on fall colors, is the distortion from ultra wide angle (75mm) and there was some wind. I think if you nail focus when taking the picture, how it scans is related more to how you develop image and the actual scene/exposure. Get any of those to far off and no amount of scanning technique can save the image (maybe make it useable though)

    [IMG]20180519_0046_20180607_Working_Flattened by Steven Ruttenberg, on Flickr[/IMG]

  2. #12

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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    For the sharpening here you have a good guide:

    https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...sharpening.htm

    You should always use adavanced algorithms for that, this makes a great difference ! USM is nice leap forward.


    ________

    This the kind of algorithms may be used inside Pro gear to adjust sharpening automaticly to the best point: http://mepro.bjtu.edu.cn/res/papers/...20Analysis.pdf

    That paper describes algorithms for detecting if an image was sharpened, but the same also serves to find the sweet point for automated in firmware procedures.

    To me sharpening it's a complex issue, and proficiency with it it's critical to obtain a sound result in the digital workflow.

  3. #13
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    Thanks for the info. I have steered away from ism after using it for years. I have been leaning towards sharpening that is subtle and almost unnoticeable. I find images that are perfectly sharpened to be hard on on the eyes. Much like,oder 4K tvs and movies. While they are undoubtedly technically perfect they appear fake and fabricated. No character, very anticeptic. Much like modern camera lenses. Technically perfect, but very sterile image reproduction.

    I am sure though there are elements of the references that I can use on images. Although, the second article has some calculus and linear algebra. Haven't done that in tears. I may try some sharpening at scan time and see what happens.

  4. #14

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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    With respect to sharpening, you might find this brief article helpful: Avoid Sharpening Artifacts: Sharpen the Mid-Tones Only.

    It's written for Photoshop, where there are often multiple ways to accomplish the same goal.

  5. #15

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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    Ken, I like your approach, good advice, but I'd add that in the layers mix, instead a not sharpened image we may use one with a milder sharpening, because shadows and highlights may also benefit from some milder sharpening.

    Now Ps CC has a Smart Sharpen filter that would help because of not destructive feature.

    In a perfect world this would no be necessary if Ps had nice ASOC type algorithms (Adaptive Sharpening with Overshoot Control), or ADSOC for the directional version, or "Unsharp Masking Sharpening Detection via Overshoot Artifacts Analysis" to locally adjust the effect.


    IMHO it also has to be mentioned that in a similar way (with masks) we should do a local edition. In a portrait we may want to sharpen well eyes and not the cheek. If we portray wrinkles in the skin 0.001mm deeper than they are then we can be killed

    A bit off topic... illumination reflections in the eyes are usually out of focus, as optically they are farther than the eyes, in a headshot it may have a remarkable effect to custom sharpen it.

    hmmm, digital is amazing for those things, but I find that the atmosphere obtained by (well used!) dedicated classic glasses cannot be surpassed by any kind of digital edition. I would like to understand why...


    ______________

    http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blo...acts-to-avoid/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P8IQ2SfRCE
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3jToF99bpw


    Also it's worth to explore Nik Sharpener Pro plugin for Ps (etc) , IIRC Nik is now owned by DoX
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-_QV-LFoQk
    Last edited by Pere Casals; 9-Nov-2018 at 05:21.

  6. #16
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    https://photographylife.com/landscap...tep-sharpening

    Like Steven, I find that restraint is best when it comes to sharpening. With scans, I do use deconvolution capture sharpening, as per the article, right at the start. It makes grains look like grains, and it help with spotting. In Photoshop this is via the camera raw filter. I haven't been doing any local sharpening lately. For output sharpening, I often totally mask it off from smooth areas.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer

  7. #17

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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Ken, I like your approach, good advice, but I'd add that in the layers mix, instead a not sharpened image we may use one with a milder sharpening, because shadows and highlights may also benefit from some milder sharpening.
    Yes, it's even better to sharpen different sections of the tonal scale independently.

    Previously I wrote something called Sharpen the Dark, Mid and High Values Separately but I thought it was too much work for the average person, so I replaced it with the current article.

  8. #18

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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    Yes, it's even better to sharpen different sections of the tonal scale independently.

    Previously I wrote something called Sharpen the Dark, Mid and High Values Separately but I thought it was too much work for the average person, so I replaced it with the current article.
    Yes, some times the easiest way it's the best...

    My perception is that sharpening tools are being smarter every day, perhaps in the near future it would be easier to make a perfect job.

  9. #19

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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Yes, some times the easiest way it's the best...

    My perception is that sharpening tools are being smarter every day, perhaps in the near future it would be easier to make a perfect job.
    These tools are probably aimed at professionals who need to sharpen a lot of photographs in quick time at low cost.

    For example, let's say I shoot 2,000 photos of a wedding. Only 5 images will be printed on paper and the rest of the images will appear online only, for people to view briefly on their smart phones while waiting for the train. I would gladly pay for a tool which will let me "sharpen" them all in the click of a button and automatically load them to a wedding web site. If the tool can automatically make the colors "vibrant" at the same time, that's even better.

    Perhaps in the not-so-distant future people will hire a robot to take the wedding photos, not just process them.

    After that the minister will be a robot (see https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/08/...cy-ai-anchors/).

    Eventually, you will marry a robot or hire 2 robots to get married for you... then the photographs will be perfect !

  10. #20

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    Re: Epson V850 scan with 100% crop

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    These tools are probably aimed at professionals who need to sharpen a lot of photographs in quick time at low cost.
    Image enhancing software started being a competitive arena in the digital minilab era, all manufacturers claimed to have better abilities than the others. Today that software recognizes the scene... if a portrait it is guessed male/female, race, age, lifestyle...

    I guess that Ps (and the like) will easily evolve the algorithms to work locally in a smarter fashion. Beyond locally limiting the effect by monitoring ovreshot, defocus areas can be located to use agressive denoise there, while in the areas with microcontrast the strategy would be another. Well, just an slider for more/less and making the software think for us.

    One thing I do sometimes to make a mask for defocus areas is an edge detection followed by an ample dilation to fill the holes, and then an ample erosion to restore the outer contour, with this simple way we can selectively mask OOF/DOF areas to denoise or to sharpen where it has to be done, Ps developers may be intensively working in reliable automation for those kinds of things...

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