How do you know exposure time for paper when making print

[Bernice Loui]

Papers have different curves and they vary batch to batch, box to box, with time-aging, developer vaviations and a host of many, many other factors.

Best way is to do test at the time when prints are made and used the same stack of print paper for print and test.

C print color is not that difficult, exposure, color correction and that is mostly it.

Ciba color prints are a different matter, this is not any where as easy to make a GOOD print compared to C print color.

GOOD B&W prints are difficult to make due to the demands of expressive artistic expression and the degree of control required (This included dodging and burning to levels never possible in color prints) to achieve tonal scale, micro-contrast, deep blacks, whites with texture and all that GOOD stuff.

While one can be quite sloppy making B&W prints and these prints are quite forgiving in many ways, once the clamps of artistic expression is applied tight as possible, these B&W prints are extremely demanding on the technical aspects as well as artistic-creative abilities.


Been there done this,
Bernice

If two papers have a different toe and shoulder then there is no easy way to obtain a perfect match,

if we nail the equivalent exposure and the equivalent grade we may have the same mids, but the way highlights and shadows are depicted (compressed) will depend on the shoulder/toe lengths of the paper.

I know a retired color printer that had worked in the weddings business...

He told me that any BW printer would learn a lot from color printing. With color there is no room for a loose method, because feedback is way more time consuming, so one has to rely less in the feedback an more in the visualizatopn and in the accurate prediction.

[esearing]

Papers have different curves and they vary batch to batch, box to box, with time-aging, developer vaviations and a host of many, many other factors.
Bernice

I used to keep developing times and notes for each print, but as stated by Bernice the differences from one batch to another can be noticeable. Also my mood and likes can change from batch to batch. Sometimes I like a really dark cold print, other times I favor warm and more open.

Bob Carnie had a suggestion on another post to make 300 prints in a short period of time for as many different content images . You quickly will learn rough exposure, contrast, and when dodging or burning is needed. I have not tried the full 300 but did do a few sessions back to back where I began to see what he was inferring.

[Corran]

The bottom line: printing a lot is your best teacher.

+1

This was the hardest lesson I had to learn, and accept.

[LabRat]

As some of the basic basics, here are the starting points...

The better the negative, the better the print... If you expose and develop the neg well, it will be much easier to print, in fact can be quite easy... Yes there are many things in the "chain" that need to be at a normal, if you get them where they should be, you won't be fighting something later...

As for the print, you will learn to expose and develop a print so the darkest areas will just touch max black when print is processed and dried... Your test strip will give you an idea of that black, but will change when dried, but you learn soon what about that will be...

Your test strip should also cross an area that has the brightest highlight, as you want to compare these two extremes... With a good negative, both of these ranges will be on the paper balanced...

If these do not balance, you have some correction with MG papers and filters, or your colorhead, but as said before, a good negative will not need it...

A good thing right now to study is how to make a standard negative, and find your standard printing time... There many texts that will describe how to calibrate your process... This is well worth the effort, and bring confidence and $$$ savings, and nice work!!!

Good luck, and happy learning!!!

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

Oren Grad _
The bottom line: printing a lot is your best teacher.

Similar to learning how to play a musical instrument or artistic skill that requires sensory (in this case visual) acuity, intellectual involvement, muscle memory and ...

It take an enormous amount of practice, dedication, passion and more to acquire GOOD printing skills.


Suggest starting with a box of 8x10, 100 sheets of variable contrast RC paper. Keep the print contrast grade between 2 or 3, any less or more means there is a struggle to get the negative to produce a decent print. Do not be afraid to wast lots of paper when beginning, and accept the difficulties of print making first time. Do not give up, be persistent in making prints, time and time again until you're OK enough with the dried print.

What often comes out of this is the understanding making a GOOD negative solves a host of printing difficulties and problems. This is the often unspoken and most difficult challenge of producing an expressive B&W image. This is a most important part of the B&W image making process as it can provide enormous feed back as to how negatives needs to be made and how lens, film, exposure, developer and all prior to making the print might need to be altered to achieve the intended-desiered results.

One more and most important item, learn what a really GOOD B&W print looks like by going to a museum - art gallery or similar that has known excellent examples of B&W prints. It is extremely important to know what an excellent B&W print looks like and the viewing conditions related to viewing these prints. Without learning B&W print excellence is, producing GOOD prints will be a problem. This does not mean copying-replicating these B&W prints, the point is to get some idea and experience of what a really excellent print is. It is much about understanding what makes a excellent print or a print that is OK or awful.


Bernice

[Pere Casals]

C print color is not that difficult, exposure, color correction and that is mostly it.

Bernice, my view it's that the difference BW vs C is that color prints are not considered as collectible as BW, with some exceptions (ciba, some alternative, some C...), because of long term permanence.

An optical color print may have the same complexity for the desnsities that a BW print, and then add the color management. In fact digitalization solved all that in commercial area.

But I was speaking about another thing, let me explain it, developing a test strip for a C print it takes a lot of effort/time compared to BW, so in the past a Pro C printer had to rely more in readings than in test strips, and he had to train better his visualization skills to guess the result from the light readings.

I don't say that testing strips or metering light is the good method, just I found that we often overlook how useful is metering on the easel to push forward our printing process.

A test strip has a problem... the band where we feel we have the right exposure may not include highlights or shadows, so we need an iterative testing.

With VC paper a way is making a test strip for highlights to find the base exposure and then finding the grade that places shadows where we want...

But spot metering highlights, shadows and some key spot in the mids will allow us to directly pick a grade and an exposure base for the job, of course a very complex work may follow to locally control the print, or to adjust the result.

It's also true that an experienced photographer makes the process straight, because he may start printing before shutter release. For example he may compress the shadows (mostly) in the way he wants in the film toe (Yousuf Karsh !), leaving mids and highlights for the darkroom... (usually this is not the T-Max linear capture way, Sexton !).

The beauty of all that is that it may be seen as an integral process...

Anyway, to me, nowadays what rocks a lot is the Ross way... in fact it's what overcomes the Ps+inkjet competition, for those having a doubt about control capability in the optic arena.

[Fred L]

There's going to be no way around test strips and test prints before getting to a final print. How much paper used is the variable and depends on your workflow. I'd suggest a darkroom/printing workshop if there's one around you. Nothing beats this imo, no matter how much wisdom the web provides. You're new to this, so starting off on the right footing will be well worth it.

also, I never used rc as a stand in for fb for exposure testing. It's close, but I don't want close.

[koraks]

In C41/RA4, your possibilities for controlling contrast are much reduced compared to b&w. This is also true for actions like burning/dodging due to the generally shorter exposures when printing, although there certainly is the possibility for some of it. Sure there are parallels between the processes, but I personally, printing both RA4 and b&w, wouldn't say that there's all that much to learn specifically in RA4 that carries over to b&w. They really are different beasts, each with their own specifics and pros & cons.

[Bernice Loui]

C41/RA4 is much about proper exposure, color balance (which should be evaluated by color cast in white and black areas) and not a lot more.
There has been a deep dislike for C prints that has developed over the decades for a host of reasons.

B&W silver gelatin prints is much about contrast, contrast gradation and all that related stuff. Very different image in many, many ways.


Bernice

[bob carnie]

I never do test strips but rather a full sheet low contrast to establish density, I then add in a #5 hit on top of what I think is the correct low filter exposure.

Like MAS I do OUTFLANK ( big adjustments and then come back) rather than CREEPING which is small adjustments trying to reach a density and contrast.

My first print takes me longer as expected , but from the initial negative I then move to similar looking negatives and am able to get decent first test prints. I think it takes me about 7-9 sheets to get where I want to be with two or three of them very acceptable prints.

I also will make lighter and darker prints to view as backups to what I think is correct, sometimes the lighter prints look better next day under gallery lighting or sometimes the darker prints.