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Thread: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

  1. #71
    (Shrek)
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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x6TLL View Post
    I.e. what camera/lens can I get for that price?

    Thanks!

    Burke & James folding 4x5 cameras routinely go for under $100 on the big auction site, sometimes with a perfectly usable lens. They're small and light enough to backpack with, and have every camera movement you could ever want. But they don't lock down precisely aligned like other cameras that sell for 8-12 times the price, and they're ugly until you strip the grey paint off and lacquer them

  2. #72
    Les
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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    Here is one at KEH, listed as EX shape https://www.keh.com/shop/4x5-b-j-orb...html?rrec=true

    Than I saw Graphic View on KEH, also in EX shape but for 80 bucks more.

    But the best deal (sort of seems) Graphic w/ 3 lenses is on CL near you in Holly: https://losangeles.craigslist.org/la...689756860.html


    Les

  3. #73

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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    Majority of Monorail 4x5 cameras do not weight 20 pounds. Possible the entire outfit with lenses, film holders, accessories and tripod will weight 20 pounds or more, camera alone mostly no.


    For anyone beginning the view camera journey, camera, lens, film holders, loupe, light meter, tripod and related must be as problem free as possible, reliable as possible and apparent in it's operation as possible.

    While many current view camera folks favor folding or field cameras, they are more difficult to use (fact folks, have owned and used MANY of them). Due to this demand, their market prices tend to be higher than a good monorail camera.

    Suggestions would be:

    *4x5 Sinar F from KEH camera (or similar), they currently have a few in the just just up to and just over $200 range. They come with a warranty-right to return and KEH has a reasonably good reputation for customer service and quality of used items. Sinar Monorail is easy to use, reliable, low cost, not too heavy (6to7 pounds). Easy and plentiful accessories-lens boards. The Sinar system is completely modular and expandable (light leaky bellows or different bellows needed can be changed in seconds with plenty of spares available. Rail and bellows can be expended to as much as any image maker would ever need), essentially the camera system can grow with you on the journey of using a view camera. Anyone beginning to use a view camera does not need camera problems and a easier to use camera has a LOT of advantages.

    https://www.keh.com/shop/sinar-4x5-f...dy-224064.html

    https://www.keh.com/shop/sinar-4x5-f...dy-224061.html
    *One with the bad bellows is the bargain. Bellows are easy to replace, low cost and plentiful.


    *One modern lens in the 150mm to 210mm range with a f5.6 full aperture in a known good-reliable Copal shutter. Lens-shutter problems for anyone starting to use a view camera can easily grow to beyond frustrating with a lot of time-effort-film being wasted.

    *Known good condition film holders that DO NOT HAVE LIGHT LEAKS. This is where cheap used films holders can cause enormous grief, waste of time-resources and much frustration.

    *Good Spot or incident light meter that is proven-certified accurate reliable. The bias fave is Minolta Spor F.

    *GOOD tripod stable enough for a 4x5. Stability does not mean weight the tripod can support, it means stable and not flimsy that is easy to use. Ball heads with a view camera is not a good idea at all.

    *Dark cloth. Nothing fancy just functional. For outdoor image making, one side white other side black has an advantage of being cooler in the sun with the white side facing the sun.

    *Loupe to focus with, does not need to be that fancy, about 4x to no more than 8x.

    *Good cable release for the lens.

    *Durable fitted case for all the above. Case should be white or light color exterior. Black camera cases which appears to be the common fashion can cook the contents to well-done with ease on a hot sunny day. Pelican makes cases with wheels in colors such as yellow, orange or beige. Wheeled cases are worth while as they ease transport. Those who favor field or similar folding cameras might recommend a back pack or similar.
    For those who do hiking with their view camera, the field camera or folding camera with related light weight support bits applies greatly.

    *Boxes of low cost B&W film to start.

    *Means to process B&W film.

    *Means to contact print or scan processed film.

    The related film photographic skills and technical aspects apply in much the same way.


    Bernice

  4. #74
    Corran's Avatar
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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    Notice I said monorail case Bernice. The big bulky Toyo case weighed like 10-15lbs by itself! The camera is over 12lbs. You're right though I was somewhat inaccurate. With a big enough tripod the setup was closer to 40lbs. Again, if working in the field, this absolutely kills any enthusiasm for LF. I know, because I schlepped my Toyo for a while before getting a Crown.
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  5. #75
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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ll=1#post23555

    I had one, but sold it here.

    I still have the very lightweight case.
    Tin Can

  6. #76
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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    I don't know what the Toyo is made out of but I think it must be thick sheets of plywood. I use it as a storage trunk. The Toyo sits on my shelf - I still use it occasionally, for architecture, where it shines with the precision movements and bag bellows for my 72 or 90mm lenses. I actually shot some LF architectural images with it on one of my jobs, to supplement the digital work.
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  7. #77

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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    5x7 Sinar Norma with Pelican 1635 case. This is the largest FAA approved carry on case with wheels. The Pelican 1635 weights about 8.5 pounds empty, has wheels and collapsing pull handle. Inside this case:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    *5x7 Sinar Norma with Bag and standard bellows., Sinar shutter.

    *115mm Grandagon, 165mm Angulon, 240mm Xenar, 450mm APO artar all in barrel except the 115mm Grandagon.

    *Minolta Spot Meter F and spare battery.

    *Six 5x7 or 13x18cm film holders.

    *Horseman focusing loupe.

    *Darkness cloth.

    *Series nine B&W filter set with Sinar swinging filter holder.

    *Sinar shutter cable release and long standard cable release for the 115mm grandagon.

    *Small tape measure.

    All up the case weights about 25 pounds. The modified Dutch Hill surveyors tripod with Sinar pan-tilt head is another 6-8 pounds or so. This tripod can be stacked on the Pelican case and wheeled along. There is a huge difference between carrying 20+ pounds of camera gear -vs- rolling on a cart 20+ pounds of camera gear.

    As for folding and field cameras, this is the previously owned or used list:

    4x5 Linhof Master Technica.

    5x7 Linhof Technica V.

    4x5 Horseman FA.

    4x5 Speed and Crown Graphic.

    4x5 Canham DLC (really liked this one).

    5x7 Wisner Field.

    8x10 Dorf.

    8x10 Toyo 810M modified with a Sinar front standard to allow using Sinar shutter and Sinar lens boards (really liked this one).

    All up weight of a field or folder camera (lenses, film holders, light meter, dark cloth and ..) is not that much less than a light weight monorail like a Sinar Norma or Sinar F.

    Yet each and every time after some time of using or owning a field or folder, I'm back to a monorail due to the camera limitations of a field-folder camera. Then again, it is directly related to the images made.

    Add, one Arca Swiss 6x9 sort of view camera system. This is light weight, lower weight than a Hasselblad system.


    Bernice

  8. #78
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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    That's certainly your prerogative. My Chamonix, a couple lenses, Grafmatics, loupe, lightweight jacket for a darkcloth, AND my small CF tripod strapped to the pack weighs in at about 10-12 pounds. You can't roll a case on the Appalachian Trail. I am well aware that I am a more mobile LF photographer than most here. Long slow burns up a mountain ridge are regularly on the schedule so that much gear is a no-go, especially if I also have camp gear. So it depends on the photographer. Again, I was just pointing out that students (new practitioners) of 4x5 inevitably dropped it immediately after schlepping specifically the monstrosity that is a Toyo G + case, owned by the university. Every last one of them. Those who borrowed a Crown Graphic were better off, and made better images because they actually got out there and used it.
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  9. #79

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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    Which nicely illustrates why different cameras for different needs. Me, allergic to camping and that hiking stuff.
    There is NO one ideal camera and camera system for all image making needs.

    IMO. it is easier to learn on a good monorail view camera. Once the basic skills have been learned, more specific image making needs can easily be applied.


    Bernice

  10. #80
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    Re: One more question while I'm here - why Large Format?

    I do often suggest the Toyo or any cheap monorail as a good learning camera, since they are so inexpensive to buy. Unless they specifically want to shoot landscape, and then the suggestion of a Crown Graphic is made, for about the same money.

    I'm pretty sure the reason monorails are so cheap is that this is the natural progression for those shooting outside the studio or anywhere that requires carrying the gear some distance. They kill their backs making a couple images and then immediately go looking for a field cam. That's what I did, I just kept the Toyo since it was mint and costed all of $200 including every accessory Toyo made it seems like. What a deal! Considering they still sell them for over $4k new.

    Your specific setup to get outside (if not on the trail ) is admirable, but most won't really know enough or sink the time/money in to get the most mobile monorail options right off the bat.
    Bryan | Blog | YouTube | Instagram | Portfolio
    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

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