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Thread: Ilford semi-matte and matte

  1. #11
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    MGWT takes in selenium very quickly, so I don't like it any stronger than 1:20, and rather cool. I sometimes used it optionally for triple-toned prints. My favorite method of split toning differs from Bob's. You might want to try both. I dev the print in 130 glycin, which leaves it a bit warm; but that is what you want at the start - finely divided silver. But it should be fully developed for DMax in the deep shadows. Then it is toned anywhere from one to seven minutes in a dilute version of GP-1 gold toner, in order to get blue-black shadows. Note that the classic GP-1 formula recommends usage at about four times the concentration
    of gold than is really necessary - time can be substituted for concentration. Gold toner must be disposed at the end of each session, so higher dilution will keep the cost reasonable, as will using only enough dilute volume to keep the surface of the print wet by rocking the tray. Rinse well before proceeding. Then go to very dilute Kodak brown toner. This is an easy-to-use sulfide, and now sold under other brand names since Kodak has stopped producing it. I now use Legacy brown toner. You must work very quickly to get the print evenly submerged in mere seconds or it will go blotchy. Pull the print early or it will overtone, and immediately immerse it in a tray full of plain water to instantly remove toner from the surface. The full toning effect will occur during the long wash cycle. I use an archival slot washer. It takes a bit of practice to learn to predict the result, which is difficult to repeat exactly from print to print; but that uniqueness print to print is part of the beauty offered by
    this technique. You can make it either as subtle or as warm as you wish. I generally aim for a more subtle effect.

  2. #12
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    I use to love the Kodak brown toner, is this Legacy a direct copy of the formula??

  3. #13
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    It seems identical composition-wise, Bob. I don't know about concentration. I get it from Freestyle in LA.

  4. #14
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    I may have to give it a go, it was a lovely toner when I used it.

  5. #15
    adelorenzo's Avatar
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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    I've been split toning in the opposite order from Bob. I do selenium first then sepia. Mostly because I am going straight from the fixer to the selenium toner after just a quick, vigorous rinse. I then do hypo clear and wash the print before getting into the sepia. My usual times on Ilford paper are selenium 1:20 for 3-7 minutes, then I use a highly dilute bleach for 30-90 seconds depending on how much sepia I want.

    I have also found that when I do selenium after sepia it tends to bring more reddish-brownish tones into the print shadows on the Ilford Warmtone. Whereas if I do the dilute selenium first they stay blacker. YMMV of course.
    Last edited by adelorenzo; 12-Sep-2018 at 15:06.

  6. #16
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    I cut the fixer time way down by using TF4, and my selenium time with MGWT is usually about 15 seconds! I'm not generally after an antique-looking brown, but if I were after red-browns, only around 45 sec in very dilute sulfide brown toner generally will do it. I retired now, but not too long ago I not only had a hectic full-time day job, but a small ranch across the state to maintain every other weekend. So I learned the value of more efficient workflow.

  7. #17

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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    Based on my experimentation: Ilford MGFB Classic Glossy with selenium alone has a color shift more to the purple-brown side at 1:5 but more red-brown at 1:20. However once you introduce bleach the purple can shift back toward brown. I prefer Bleach/Thiourea/fix then Selenium (1:6) for an overall brown tone.
    The mountain waters of North Georgia call out to me, I visit and leave only tripod holes behind. The Appalachian Trail is my treadmill and gym.
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  8. #18

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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    What is the function of the fix after the thiourea? Did you notice any difference when you skip this step?

  9. #19

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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    What is the function of the fix after the thiourea? Did you notice any difference when you skip this step?
    I have skipped it at times with no noticeable impact. It was in the instructions that I originally found when using PotFerri+PB Bleach with Thiourea. Curious what happens to un-toned silver halides remaining in the paper, are they simply washed away?
    I believe this is why Farmers Reducer Part B was a fixer and why one always fixes after spot bleaching.

    Probably a topic for a different thread to let the chemists weigh in.
    The mountain waters of North Georgia call out to me, I visit and leave only tripod holes behind. The Appalachian Trail is my treadmill and gym.
    http://www.esearing.com

  10. #20

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    Re: Ilford semi-matte and matte

    In my experience, thiourea will completely stain all undeveloped halides. So after thiourea toning, provided that it is done to completion (typically less than a minute in my experience), no silver halides remain and fixing would do nothing and all.

    I was wondering if your experience was different and that perhaps the fixing bath for some reason unknown to me altered the tone of the print.

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