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Thread: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

  1. #11

    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Quote Originally Posted by ic-racer View Post
    You can't try them to see? Otherwise my guess is to keep the 80mm Componon-S and the 150mm Componon-S. Those are the the two I use.
    I have two of those 80mm f4 new style Componon-S lenses, one has clearer glass than the other (after cleaning both). So you really do need to test them to see.
    +1

  2. #12

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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    The 80mm is staying, I didn't realize I put in the group. I don't have a light tight darkroom as of yet so testing them is not an option.

  3. #13
    David Lobato David Lobato's Avatar
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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    I'd sell the Fujinon ES lens. Though it's uncertain if it's better than the only other 135mm lens, a Componon. The Fujinon ES lenses are not considered as good as the Fujinon EX series. The ES lenses were also cheaper than the EX lenses.

  4. #14

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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Pere,

    The fall off with a wide angle camera lens can not be compensated with an enlarging lens. The wa lens fall off means the film has less density at the edges of the film. Fall off with an enlarging lens means less density at the edges of the print. Only a center filter or dodging will compensate for the fall off.

    Bob, consider that the fall off from the enlarging lens illuminates less the edges that have less density, so it compensates the lower opacity of the film (in the edges) by throwing less light there.

    It isn't a perfect compensation, but it helps.

    Also we can adjust the amount of fall off by adjusting aperture, wide open the enlarging lens has higher fall off, and it decreases as we stop the lens. The graph shows fall off at 5.6, 8 and 11.

    https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs...s_56_135_1.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The graph shows that we can even throw two stops less light in the corners by taking advantage of the enlarging lens fall off, so we can correct perhaps 3 stops fall off in the taking, but this may impose an aperture we dont' want...



    Of course the center filter makes sense because having the corners underexposed (or the center overexposed) provocates other problems, but if having a negative that has fall off then using a shorter than usual enlarging lens should help...

    Also I found that in the 138S we can adjust the bulb position with different condensers, so there we have another way to illuminate more or less the corners compared to the center.

  5. #15

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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Try them, I doubt you'll much if any difference between them! L

  6. #16

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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Bob, consider that the fall off from the enlarging lens illuminates less the edges that have less density, so it compensates the lower opacity of the film (in the edges) by throwing less light there.

    It isn't a perfect compensation, but it helps.

    Also we can adjust the amount of fall off by adjusting aperture, wide open the enlarging lens has higher fall off, and it decreases as we stop the lens. The graph shows fall off at 5.6, 8 and 11.

    https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs...s_56_135_1.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	enl.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	43.5 KB 
ID:	181574

    The graph shows that we can even throw two stops less light in the corners by taking advantage of the enlarging lens fall off, so we can correct perhaps 3 stops fall off in the taking, but this may impose an aperture we dont' want...



    Of course the center filter makes sense because having the corners underexposed (or the center overexposed) provocates other problems, but if having a negative that has fall off then using a shorter than usual enlarging lens should help...

    Also I found that in the 138S we can adjust the bulb position with different condensers, so there we have another way to illuminate more or less the corners compared to the center.
    Pere, if one wants optimal results from an enlarging lens to obtain the best possible print quality there are certain things that you must have:
    1 a properly exposed and processed film.
    2 a properly aligned enlarger
    3 a glass negative carrier
    4 a high quality enlarging lens
    5 optimal aperture of the enlarging lens
    6 optimal magnification range of the enlarging lens

    THE OPTIMAL APERTURE OF AN ENLARGING LENS IS 2 TO 3 STOPS DOWN FROM WIDE OPEN!

    A high quality enlarging lens at optimal aperture and within its magnification range should have no more then ⅓ rd stop fall off center to edge.
    In no way can that properly compensate for the fall off from a wide angle taking lens shot without the center filter.

  7. #17

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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    .......if one wants optimal results from an enlarging lens to obtain the best possible print quality there are certain things that you must have:
    1 a properly exposed and processed film.
    2 a properly aligned enlarger
    3 a glass negative carrier
    4 a high quality enlarging lens
    5 optimal aperture of the enlarging lens
    6 optimal magnification range of the enlarging lens
    That's asking a lot from someone who is asking which lens to keep!

  8. #18

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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luis-F-S View Post
    That's asking a lot from someone who is asking which lens to keep!
    That was directed at Pere, not the op

  9. #19
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Bob's list is excellent. None of this is rocket science, and these things aren't that hard to arrange.

    Regarding a glass carrier, I saw an example of it's importance recently. I'm scanning a bunch of 120 film. I lay a plastic mask sheet on a light box, one of the standard fluorescent studio ones from about 2000. When it's been on for awhile, it gets warm to the touch but not hot. My masking sheets hold three strips of negatives. My process was to lay each strip over the appropriate opening, I then position each one carefully and tape it in place. That may take about 10-30 seconds. As I was taping the first negative, the other two strips would curl dramatically from the heat. Now imagine what happens with a hot light source like most enlargers. Not only does the film possibly move out of the ideal plane of focus during enlarging, but it can be moving during the exposure, and we all know what subject movement does to sharpness during a long exposure.

    Another confirmation of this: I built an aluminum holder for my Screen Cezanne. It was a 1/4" thick sheet of flat aluminum, with various holes machines out to match film sizes. Like many people in both traditional darkrooms and scanning light room, I hate dust. I just spent most of the morning, for instance, spotting a high res scan. So printers try to go with glassless holders, which was the motivation behind my aluminum scanning tray. The only problem? The scans weren't as sharp as they were with clam shell holders. I suspect film movement during the scanning process, either from the heat of the light source or from the movement of the scanning tray, or, likely, both. It was a dramatic difference.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  10. #20

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    Re: Which enlarging lenses should I keep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    1 a properly exposed and processed film.
    2 a properly aligned enlarger
    3 a glass negative carrier
    4 a high quality enlarging lens
    5 optimal aperture of the enlarging lens
    6 optimal magnification range of the enlarging lens
    Bob, I agree. This is a recipe that doesn't fail. It's always good to enforce this checklist.

    Anyway optimal aperture of the enlarging lens "IS 2 TO 3 STOPS DOWN FROM WIDE OPEN!", but it also can be 1 to 2 stops, and some lenses like Rodagon N also performs quite well fully open if aligment is perfect...

    But that 1 to 3 stops down still allows for adjusting fall off of a relatively short enlarging lens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    A high quality enlarging lens at optimal aperture and within its magnification range should have no more then ⅓ rd stop fall off center to edge.
    In no way can that properly compensate for the fall off from a wide angle taking lens shot without the center filter.
    In this point I disagree a bit, I agree that in regular conditions we should have no more than 1/3 fall off, and because that (in general) a 135mm enlarging lens is not desired for regular 4x5 work, so we may prefer 150mm or 180mm...

    but... what happens if we have a 45 negative that was exposed with fall off and then we have thinner edges ? the fall off from a 135mm enlarging lens is to help us !!! doesn't it ? don't we want less light in the corners?

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