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Thread: neg with dark borders

  1. #1
    New Orleans, LA
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    Oct 2004
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    neg with dark borders

    Someone sent the store a couple of 8x10 negs and the rebate borders are dark rather than clear. Perhaps a copy neg? But why the dark borders? A quick search of the notch code makes me think it is Royal Pan 4141: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notch_...ak_sheet_films. Any insight would be appreciated.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    New Orleans, LA
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    Re: neg with dark borders

    Duh, it must be a fan club photo; the borders will print white. But how did they get the rebate to reverse? Special Hollywood holders?

  3. #3

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    Re: neg with dark borders

    Just a WAG, could the film have been held by a vacuum easel under the enlarger, maybe it was never in a film holder?

  4. #4
    jp's Avatar
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    Re: neg with dark borders

    WAG here too.. I'm with Denny. I bet it is an internegative; it was enlarged (in a frame) onto some positive film for offset printing.

  5. #5

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    Re: neg with dark borders

    I it was an internegative, wouldn't the border still be clear? Unless it was deliberately inversed of course...
    Am I just seeing things or is there a very narrow wedge of clear rebate running from the lower left corner upwards? Perhaps the negative was placed onder an enlarger, the image area masked and the rebate exposed to create the dark border? Sounds convoluted, I know...

  6. #6

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    Re: neg with dark borders

    From the notches, film looks Agfa APX 100... (http://photondetector.com/tools_ref/filmdata/) but not I'm not sure.

    If it was an enlarged negative, as jp says, the frame would be black (as it is) if the internegative was obtained directly from a reversal processing.

  7. #7
    Gary Beasley's Avatar
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    Re: neg with dark borders

    The dark border was likely from a white border on the print that was being copied. A familiar look from years running a copy camera.

  8. #8

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    Re: neg with dark borders

    I recently obtained an 8X10 black and white negative of a studio photo of Marlene Dietrich featured in the 1932 film "Shanghai Express". I have scanned it and make laser prints and I intend to make an 11X14 fibre based print of it in my enlarger. The "original negative" is of course long gone and the original itself was heavily retouched by various methods to produce the first contact print. That print received various enhancements before it was rephotographed to create the negatives for release prints. My "negative" like yours makes a print with white boarders, the obvious sign of a copy print.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	181365 Can anyone identify the photographer?

  9. #9
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: neg with dark borders

    Positive film (or negative film processed to a positive) to make a duplicate negative by contact printing could do that.

  10. #10

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    Re: neg with dark borders

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal Chaves View Post
    I recently obtained an 8X10 black and white negative of a studio photo of Marlene Dietrich featured in the 1932 film "Shanghai Express". I have scanned it and make laser prints and I intend to make an 11X14 fibre based print of it in my enlarger. The "original negative" is of course long gone and the original itself was heavily retouched by various methods to produce the first contact print. That print received various enhancements before it was rephotographed to create the negatives for release prints. My "negative" like yours makes a print with white boarders, the obvious sign of a copy print.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dietrich from Shanghai Express LR.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	23.5 KB 
ID:	181365 Can anyone identify the photographer?
    You have to find out who was the paramount photographer at the time. Lee Garmes is credited with the lighting pattern that made Dietrich distinct. Not sure if he was still there in 1932, but I suspect so. Top lighting would indicate his work.

    Hurrel had a session with Dietrich in 1937. He Had left MGM in 1932 and worked as an independent.

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