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Thread: Chamonix choice and questions.

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2014
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    8

    Chamonix choice and questions.

    Hello everybody,
    It seems that i cannot find an answer to these questions anywhere, so i`ll ask here.

    Background : I am a beginner in LF, i had a Horseman LX ( too heavy, had to sell ). I only shot paper until now ( about 150 frames ). Currently I have a 210 5.6 Symmar, and 2 process lens, 150 and 210 f9 ( these will be used for enlargements at a later time ). I will get a 150mm ( with shutter ) at a later time. Planning on shooting : landscapes, urban architecture, forests, and some portraits.


    For the moment I am in the market for a portable camera, and have narrowed it down to a NEW Chamonix, or a used Toyo 45A/AII. The price is almost the same.
    As i only ever shot a geared monorail with plenty of movements, i have no practical way of determining if these will suit my needs.
    210mm is the max focal length i`ll use, focused to 3-4 meters ( 10-13 ft ).


    It`s all to 3 choices with the pros and cons i found :

    Chamonix 45F-2 - I don`t like the way it folds. When opening it, the front standard is attached only to the bellows, and i would have to screw the front standard each time. I do like that it appears sturdier than the 45H-1 when extended.
    Chamonix 45H-1 - Standards stay on the camera when it is packed, movements are slightly better that those of the 45F-2. Has rise and shift on the back ( vs F ). I have an impending fear that due to the multiple rails, it is "flimsy" when extended ( 210mm focused to 304 meters ( 10-13 ft ). Also, i understand that the camera can have some "creeping" with heavy lens and downward position.
    Toyo 45A / 45AII - All metal , strong. Movements are quite limited as far as i can tell. Also heavier than the Chamonix.

    The order i`m considering them is this : 45H-1; 45F-2, Toyo ( either one )

    1. Can someone with a 45H-1 tell me : with a, let`s say, 210mm lens at inf. , are the base-boards tilting at all ? The pictures from the site look a little "bent" when extended, even without a lens.
    2. For the 45F-2 : Should i really be concerned with the front standard being loose when folding/unfolding ? Can i, by mistake, tear the bellows from the standard if .. maybe .. i drop the front standard when mounting ?
    3. Can anyone tell me the difference between the Chammonix 45N-2 and 45F-2 ? ( they seem the same from the specs, except for " rear asymmetrical tilt ". Can`t seem to understand what that is.

    These choices are making me mad, getting the money for these cameras has taken more than 6 months. I don`t want to get something and have to sell it a week after. My country has virtually zero market for large format.

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Angus Parker angusparker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Francisco, USA
    Posts
    740

    Re: Chamonix choice and questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by tzava-ro View Post
    Hello everybody,
    It seems that i cannot find an answer to these questions anywhere, so i`ll ask here.

    Background : I am a beginner in LF, i had a Horseman LX ( too heavy, had to sell ). I only shot paper until now ( about 150 frames ). Currently I have a 210 5.6 Symmar, and 2 process lens, 150 and 210 f9 ( these will be used for enlargements at a later time ). I will get a 150mm ( with shutter ) at a later time. Planning on shooting : landscapes, urban architecture, forests, and some portraits.


    For the moment I am in the market for a portable camera, and have narrowed it down to a NEW Chamonix, or a used Toyo 45A/AII. The price is almost the same.
    As i only ever shot a geared monorail with plenty of movements, i have no practical way of determining if these will suit my needs.
    210mm is the max focal length i`ll use, focused to 3-4 meters ( 10-13 ft ).


    It`s all to 3 choices with the pros and cons i found :

    Chamonix 45F-2 - I don`t like the way it folds. When opening it, the front standard is attached only to the bellows, and i would have to screw the front standard each time. I do like that it appears sturdier than the 45H-1 when extended.
    Chamonix 45H-1 - Standards stay on the camera when it is packed, movements are slightly better that those of the 45F-2. Has rise and shift on the back ( vs F ). I have an impending fear that due to the multiple rails, it is "flimsy" when extended ( 210mm focused to 304 meters ( 10-13 ft ). Also, i understand that the camera can have some "creeping" with heavy lens and downward position.
    Toyo 45A / 45AII - All metal , strong. Movements are quite limited as far as i can tell. Also heavier than the Chamonix.

    The order i`m considering them is this : 45H-1; 45F-2, Toyo ( either one )

    1. Can someone with a 45H-1 tell me : with a, let`s say, 210mm lens at inf. , are the base-boards tilting at all ? The pictures from the site look a little "bent" when extended, even without a lens.
    2. For the 45F-2 : Should i really be concerned with the front standard being loose when folding/unfolding ? Can i, by mistake, tear the bellows from the standard if .. maybe .. i drop the front standard when mounting ?
    3. Can anyone tell me the difference between the Chammonix 45N-2 and 45F-2 ? ( they seem the same from the specs, except for " rear asymmetrical tilt ". Can`t seem to understand what that is.

    These choices are making me mad, getting the money for these cameras has taken more than 6 months. I don`t want to get something and have to sell it a week after. My country has virtually zero market for large format.

    Thank you.
    Point 3 is correct. The asymmetrical tilt is for this purpose: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gR4m70xr9mE

    Personally I have owned the N1 and F1 and find both easy to set up and sturdy enough for regular 4x5 lenses. With the extension bar installed at 600mm the camera is a bit wobbly in the wind but at 250mm with a Copal 0 or 1 its rigid enough at a standard exposure time. You can use a Copal 3 lens but really why would you given the multiple cheap alternatives? I like the folding cameras for smaller size but I can see why the H series might appeal for faster set up. The Toyo will be more rigid but Id rather carry more film and lens options or have a lighter pack.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8

    Re: Chamonix choice and questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by angusparker View Post
    Point 3 is correct. The asymmetrical tilt is for this purpose: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gR4m70xr9mE
    I understand the principles of changing the focus plane. What i don`t get is the difference between "normal tilt" and "asymmetrical tilt".
    I had "normal tilt" on my horseman, as well as "base tilt". The tilting point was 5cm / 2in below the standard. Is this the same thing ?

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Kent, UK
    Posts
    24

    Re: Chamonix choice and questions.

    Asymmetrical tilt is neither base tilt nor normal (axis) tilt. With Asym tilt you can get the correct tilt amount in a single iteration, versus a normal tilt-refocus procedure. Loosely speaking, asym tilt will tilt and refocus at the same time with the same tilting motion.

    Check out this document about asymmetrical tilt by Richard Sexton, it is for an Ebony 45SU, of which the Chamonix 45H-1 is a clone.

    http://www.mr-alvandi.com/downloads/...el-cameras.pdf

  5. #5

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8

    Re: Chamonix choice and questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by minh0204 View Post
    Asymmetrical tilt is neither base tilt nor normal (axis) tilt. With Asym tilt you can get the correct tilt amount in a single iteration, versus a normal tilt-refocus procedure. Loosely speaking, asym tilt will tilt and refocus at the same time with the same tilting motion.

    Check out this document about asymmetrical tilt by Richard Sexton, it is for an Ebony 45SU, of which the Chamonix 45H-1 is a clone.

    http://www.mr-alvandi.com/downloads/...el-cameras.pdf
    Thank you, it all makes sense now. Document explains a LOT, can i have more ?

    In the meantime, i have decided that i want a Chamonix. Either 45F-2 or 45H-1. Most probably a 45H-1.

  6. #6
    Foamer
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    1,130

    Re: Chamonix choice and questions.

    I have the Chamonix 045n. I've been entirely happy with it. It's very well made and light weight. I do have to screw the front standard on with set up, but that's not a big deal. While not a good choice for heavy lenses in Copal 3, the camera is light and easy to use all day long.


    Kent in SD
    The first five days after a weekend are the roughest.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8

    Re: Chamonix choice and questions.

    I`ve ordered a Chamonix 45F-2. thank you all for the support.

  8. #8

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    Sep 2003
    Location
    La Luz del Oeste, Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    408

    Re: Chamonix choice and questions.

    I am a Chamonix 45N-2 owner and agree with Angus Parker and Two23–aka Kent.
    Peter Collins

    "Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it." Song of Songs 8:7

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