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Thread: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

  1. #41

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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Baker View Post
    It was my understanding the setting for the whole scanning area is supposed to used, this switches to a similar lens that is used to in the epson 4990. It is a wider angle lens that is focused on the glass or nearly so and has a greater depth of field.
    In the scanning software, I choose Film with Holder in order for the high resolution lens to be used and place the film in the middle of the glass.
    The wet mount holder suspends the film 3.3mm above the scanner glass by default.

    I might be barking up the wrong tree here doing it this way of course.

  2. #42
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    All I know is that when I use my V850 at 2400 the scans don't look all that great, when I use it at 3900 they look great.

    I am guessing, but it sounds like the lenses of these scanners are not as capable as the imaging sensor. Which is why beyond a certain number of pixels, no more benefit is gained since the lens can provide no more detail to be taken advantage of.

    Hence, why I am looking at building a dslr rig to scan my negatives. I will most like use a Canon 5DS and a 100mm or 185mm macro lens at 1:1 to scan in.

  3. #43

    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    With all the known difficulty of scanning-digitizing sheet film then putting the data into software for post processing then the printing process, why not keep the entire post developed film process as optical printing in a wet darkroom?

    DSLR scanner is quality limited to the ability of the DSLR and it's optical system. Add to this the same digital post print process system.

    If one were to go after the very best digital image file, why not use a medium format digital camera system. This skips the scanning process and in theory reduce the image digitizing process.

    Have yet to see a digital B&W print that appeals to me.


    Bernice

  4. #44

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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    IMHO traditional wet printing is amazing, also it adds the value of autenticity. Personally I'm in that way.

    ...but if one uses film, hybrid process has also the strong advantage of easy image manipulation and internet sharing.

  5. #45
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    I was in Venice Florida a couple of years ago visiting Clyde Butcher's gallery. https://clydebutcher.com/galleries/

    Clyde's long history of LF wet printing four and five foot wide BW prints of the Florida everglades and elsewhere has been well established. The prints are georgious. However, he does have digital versions of the same photos at about 40% cheaper. I'm sure he's using the best scanners and best printers.

    Due to health, he switched to taking digital photos (A7III or A&Riii)a few years ago and those are available in digital prints as well. I've got to tell you, he's got it down pretty good. The digitals are superlative and I would guess that 98% of the viewers couldn't tell the difference.

    However, I am not suggestion that anyone should do something they'd rather not do. After all, I still shoot film (MF if not LF) (but don't wet print it), and people look at me like I'm crazy for using film at all after I convince them that film is even available any longer.

  6. #46
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    With all the known difficulty of scanning-digitizing sheet film then putting the data into software for post processing then the printing process, why not keep the entire post developed film process as optical printing in a wet darkroom?

    DSLR scanner is quality limited to the ability of the DSLR and it's optical system. Add to this the same digital post print process system.

    If one were to go after the very best digital image file, why not use a medium format digital camera system. This skips the scanning process and in theory reduce the image digitizing process.

    Have yet to see a digital B&W print that appeals to me.


    Bernice
    If I had 30,000 dollars or in some cases upwards of 100,000 dollars for a medium format digital camera and lenses, I might just give it a whirl.

  7. #47

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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    In answering the OP original question it is worth considering how these devices actually work.

    In the case of the V700/750/800/850 scanners there are two rows of sensors. Each row of sensors has an equivalent spacing of 1/3200 of an inch, the alternate row of sensor is 1/2 pixel offset. This allows the resolution to be increased in the X dimension.

    So the "resolution" in the X dimension never really changes, it is never less than 3200dpi. I have not been able to figure out when the alternate row of sensor is activated. i.e. is it used all the time and the resolution is 6400dpi in the X dimension or only when a resolution higher than 3200dpi is chosen. If this device was being designed today, you would assume that the offset row was always being used. In any case it is never less than 3200dpi.

    In the Y dimension it is a bit different, the sample size it is still equivalent to 1/3200 of an inch, except the stepper motor controls the spacing between each sample.

    As an extreme example if you scan at 300 dpi, you will have one sample 1/3200 of inch then a space of nearly 10/3200 and then another sample 1/3200 and so on.

    When you scan at 6400 dpi then the stepper motor makes the sensors overlap.

    Now most of this is just reverse engineering and there are probably a few inaccuracies, but it may help to understand why scanning at the highest resolution and re sampling gives the best result. Conversely driving the stepper motor so that the spacing is greater also gives good results.

  8. #48

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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    If I had 30,000 dollars or in some cases upwards of 100,000 dollars for a medium format digital camera and lenses, I might just give it a whirl.
    The Fujifilm GFX and Hasselblad X1D are both substantially less expensive.

  9. #49

    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    There are Leaf, Phase One and other MF digital backs and cameras on the used market, no short supply of used MF digital gear. The cost is not excessive by any means.

    The root question is what is the image maker's goal?

    Film or Digital, they are mere tools and means to achieve an intended goal. Nothing more, nothing less. IMO, both have good and bad, neither is ideal for all image making needs.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    The Fujifilm GFX and Hasselblad X1D are both substantially less expensive.

  10. #50

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    Re: Epson V800 2400ppi Only After Down Sampling From 6400ppi

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    The digitals are superlative and I would guess that 98% of the viewers couldn't tell the difference.
    Well, I would not tell a difference between the Mona Lisa and a medium quality falsification of it, even if using a loupe, nor the 99.9% (at least) of the viewers.

    I agree that digital prints are superlative, but a collector usually doesn't buy that, so that market is addressed mostly to ornamental applications.

    A sound print made with pure optical means has a value that's beyond technical quality. The artist's hand can be seen in each copy, and there is the authenticity of the light's footprint.

    Of course (IMHO) there is not more or less art in an optical print than in a digital print, but a sound traditional optical print is a unique hancrafted object that required uncommon skills.

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