Seeking Monorails for a 16x20, Also Will a 4x5 Front Standard Work?

[HT Finley]

I'll never quite understand certain crowds, like the pinhole crowd or ULF people. And I'm an avid handicraftsman myself. Why detract from photography for the sake of woodworking on diminishing-return pursuits? I would think an 8x10 negative on a good even coverage 10 x 12 enlarger or converted graphic arts horizontal camera would be plenty. But as long as you guys are forcing film companies to manufacture absurd film sizes, at least I know they have extra to carve off a little piece for me on my little cameras. I'll just bet you guys still hang a 35 around your neck before heading out in the field.

[Tin Can]

All formats and all modes of capture are welcome on this forum in the right location.

However I don’t make the rules here. I try to suppprt all positive endeavor about photography.

Lately I am considering a return to a Minox II Spy camera. It was what I was given at age 7 to shoot and process the film in my first darkroom. Father made me a plywood closet in the basement. However in his great wisdom refused me access to an enlarger. He thought that was folly. He really pissed me off when I was not allowed to buy one, at age 7, with my paper route money. I then gave up photography for years. Tiny Format Randy. I can see him now. Frustrated. I have a rule I learned in the factory. ‘Never stop a person that is working. They are hard to restart.’ I didn’t develop film again for 40 years!

Cheers!

I'll never quite understand certain crowds, like the pinhole crowd or ULF people. And I'm an avid handicraftsman myself. Why detract from photography for the sake of woodworking on diminishing-return pursuits? I would think an 8x10 negative on a good even coverage 10 x 12 enlarger or converted graphic arts horizontal camera would be plenty. But as long as you guys are forcing film companies to manufacture absurd film sizes, at least I know they have extra to carve off a little piece for me on my little cameras. I'll just bet you guys still hang a 35 around your neck before heading out in the field.

[Lou Baleur]

For long extensions, home depot sells steel and aluminum 1 inch square rods that work with the cambo square rail drive. Aluminum works to about 4 feet extension and then you must got to steel. Largest I use is 6 feet steel.

The system for large lenses is use a cambo 8x10 rear standard as a front standard for large lenses--you can use the 8x10 to 4x5 adapters to make large "lensboards" (10" square). A packard shutter with a 5" opening just fits on one of these converted boards. For the rear standard, take another cambo 8x10 rear standard and put in a wider vertical post support beam in the rear standard. Or you can simply bolt an extension on the existing steel slider for rear shift. This provides the wider "goal posts" for the larger rear standards. I have 11x14 like this and that's as big as seems practical with a monorail on the bottom type of setup with this camera system--anything bigger and there will be way too much weight "up top" with nothing below to balance, so you have a pretty large inverted pendulum on a relatively tiny single square rail "shaft" to resist the gravity twist forces that tend to want to rotate the square rail "shaft".

For tripod support, the best is have a large tripod top plate and use two of the smaller 4x5 camera center supports to provide two mounting points for the rail. It's sort of like building your own "extended" type of "double rail clamp" which is even farther apart than the stock cambo double rail clamp.

A good lightweight method for mounting this rig is to take an old "safe lock" projector stand--the old metal kind--and put the two 4x5 mounts at each end--this provide about one foot of separation for the rail mounts and it's a relatively lightweight 4-legged support system for the rig. Alternatively, you can take the safelock top and mount it to a large tilting tripod head like on a saltzman tripod and have a tilting monorail system.

Only one size up, 11x14, is a lot of weight and leverage "up top" and it seems that anything larger would be too much if made from cambo 8x10 camera components. It does work quite well for 11x14, however.

[Qeb]

Randy Moe, haha I have a spy camera too. I wanted to do a series with that camera for my university classes but never did.


Hello Lou Baleur. Does cambo have different rail systems. I'm in contact with Glen from glennview.com and he has these: https://imgur.com/53Y6Zop

Is that the same square rails you mentioned? Great, use two rear standards from an 8x10 Cambo. Sorry, what do you mean by virtical posts... Do you mean these in red? https://imgur.com/OsmUMPf
Where would one get wider vertical support beam? Would something like this need fabrication and/or welding? My friend can weld if needed
I'm a little confused by the...."smaller 4x5 camera center supports to provide two mounting points for the rail," and the safe lock projector stand. Sorry, for my confusion Any chance you have photos of this setup/rig?

Thanks Lou!

[Lou Baleur]

That one from glennview is a different rail. The one everyone's talking about is the 1 inch square rail that was used on the original cambos--this is what makes it desirable--the rail can be purchased from regular hardware stock as long as you like for cheep.

On your questions--yes--the ones in red--it's the spacing of those that must be increased for a larger format--so the base must be made bigger (wider). This can be done by replacing the actual piece of steel that slides back and forth OR (like I did), bolting another, longer, piece of aluminum bar to the existing one--thus providing a wider support spacing for the "goalposts."

On the tripod mounts, the 4x5 used a single clamp in the middle, the 8x10 used a "double clamp" in the middle. Just look on ebay for pics of each--"cambo rail clamp."

I'd be glad to put it together and make some pics for you if you send me a private message with your email to send them to. However, my point is that 11x14 is about the biggest you can go with that tiny 1 inch square rail at the bottom supporting in all. Maybe you can use a different support system for the back of the camera and the 1" monorail system for the front standard / lens support only--that would work. But anything bigger than 11x14 and there would be no end of huge torque leverage problems due to the size and weight that would have to be resisted by a teeny 1 inch square rail--I meant to discourage you from attempting this with your planned 16x20---it will likely be too much even for the mighty 8x10 cambo rear standard.

I had planned a much larger monorail myself--I called it the "mega rail," made with polaroid mp4 columns as the monorail and the railriders as the standard bearers--I've hoarded a bunch of mp4 monorails and railriders for this project--unfortunately, time...not enough of it just now to complete anything but concept and parts hoarding.

[Dan Fromm]

Lou, I'm not sure about the suitability of Cambo SC rail riders for the OP's fantasy, sorry, project. I'm also not sure about how rigid long lengths of 80/20 brand size 1010 t-slotted extrusion are. The four (4) foot section that supported my baby Bertha was more than strong and rigid enough. The stuff is much beefier than the 1" square tubing sold in hardware stores.

If 1x1 80/20 t-slotted extrusion won't do, there are larger sizes. I used a piece of 1.5" x 1.5" 80/20 as the base of my tandem Graphic. Overkill in a huge way. The OP really should find 80/20's site and download the catalog before committing himself to anything. They offer a variety of sliders too.

Come to think of it, the OP should also consider making his fantasy's, sorry, project's standards and bellows frames from 80/20. The catalog will, if he gets it and studies it, give him many ideas.

[Qeb]

Hello Lou Baleur, Thank you for some great ideas, advice and warnings! I really appreciate you and everyone else on the forums. This forum is really a special place with awesome members!
Sure, I'll shoot you a PM with my email address

Hello DanFromm, thanks for all your replies as well! Okay, I will look into larger dimension 80/20. I'm in talks with MAubrey about this design which incorporates carbon fiber tubes to make a dual rail setup.

Thanks again everyone!
Cheers,
Kevin