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Thread: First scans with Epson V850

  1. #11
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    It's great having the skill to wet mounting, now you just need to benchmark wet vs scanning to know when it's worth or not, with different films and image types, how sharp and/or dense has to be the shot to realize an improvement. You may to take wet vs dry side by side in Ps, adjust the wet to its best, then independently adjust the dry image for a best match, with levels, curves, sharpening, saturation...

    You can stitch both images one on the other in layers, then substract to realize what's the difference, so you can adjust for a better match, a black result would show a perfect match.
    Sounds like a plan.

  2. #12

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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    Sounds like a plan.
    Agree with Pere, wet mounting may not always be worth the time/effort, but can really help in the situations where you need it. I use the Better Scanning mounting station and it's great for wet mounting 4x5.

    Here's an article I wrote comparing Wet vs. Dry on my Epson v800, if you want to see some examples.

  3. #13

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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by sheel View Post
    Agree with Pere, wet mounting may not always be worth the time/effort, but can really help in the situations where you need it. I use the Better Scanning mounting station and it's great for wet mounting 4x5.

    Here's an article I wrote comparing Wet vs. Dry on my Epson v800, if you want to see some examples.
    This is a very interesting article, thanks for posting it.

    Anyway in your example with some unsharp masking in the dry scan image we can make it look similar to the wet one. I've just sharpened until noise looked the same, then detail also is seen similar...

    Compared dry vs wet with sharpening in the selected region

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Compared dry vs wet before sharpening

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just apply 58% and 2.8 pixel

    Also grain in the sky looks very similar if that sharpening is applied.


    It would be interesting to see the same scans with Multi-Exposure

  4. #14

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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    This is a very interesting article, thanks for posting it.

    Anyway in your example with some unsharp masking in the dry scan image we can make it look similar to the wet one. I've just sharpened until noise looked the same, then detail also is seen similar...

    Compared dry vs wet with sharpening in the selected region

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SP32-20180318-231431.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	43.1 KB 
ID:	176151

    Compared dry vs wet before sharpening

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SP32-20180318-231438.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	42.1 KB 
ID:	176152

    Just apply 58% and 2.8 pixel

    Also grain in the sky looks very similar if that sharpening is applied.


    It would be interesting to see the same scans with Multi-Exposure
    Yes, that can be a viable approach too! Also, I didn't discuss on other potential benefits like reducing flare through wet mounting.

    Btw, I printed my photo on 48x36" aluminum at 300dpi and it's glorious.

  5. #15

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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by sheel View Post
    Yes, that can be a viable approach too! Also, I didn't discuss on other potential benefits like reducing flare through wet mounting.

    Btw, I printed my photo on 48x36" aluminum at 300dpi and it's glorious.
    Well, also it's a really nice shot, it shows some grain in the sky, but I like it, HP5 has a very beautiful grain structure peaking in the mids, also TX would have been performing nice.

    In theory flare can also be addressed by adjusting levels, if negative has similar density in all rows then it's easy, just digitally substracting the average flare, but if there are rows with a high of average density vs rows with low density then it is more dificult to do it.

    I feel V7xx/8xx Epsons are semi Pro, perhaps not best choice for somebody that's all day long scanning, but I'm amazed by how good they perform in BW LF.

  6. #16
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    I am still learning this scanner and Vuescan,I just made some raw files at 4000dpi of scene with Extar 100. I did multi can set at 16 and multiples for darks. I also locked exposures saved as raw file no inversion to color etc just what scanner scanned, will use the rawscan plug and compare to the output inverted dng inverted file. I will also compare the same two types of files using aliasing

    Vuescan also let's you set focus manually could be of benifit. I amusing Better Scanning wet setup and Kami scan fluid which takes me really no more time to set up and really helps vs dry from my experience.

  7. #17

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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    I am still learning this scanner and Vuescan,I just made some raw files at 4000dpi of scene with Extar 100. I did multi can set at 16 and multiples for darks. I also locked exposures saved as raw file no inversion to color etc just what scanner scanned, will use the rawscan plug and compare to the output inverted dng inverted file. I will also compare the same two types of files using aliasing

    Vuescan also let's you set focus manually could be of benifit. I amusing Better Scanning wet setup and Kami scan fluid which takes me really no more time to set up and really helps vs dry from my experience.
    Multi exposure and exposure lock can help with fine tuning the scan. Basically you want to achieve a linear, RAW scan for maximum quality control in post processing. I doubt you’ll gain much doing a 16 pass scan though. I usually only do max of 3.

    As for manual focus, that won’t help with the Epson because the focus/lens is fixed. You have to use the height adjusters on the holders to focus. It’s a pain in the butt.

    Wet scan using the better scanning mount is relatively simple, just need to make sure you get the negative flat and use a mask around the film.

  8. #18
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by sheel View Post
    Multi exposure and exposure lock can help with fine tuning the scan. Basically you want to achieve a linear, RAW scan for maximum quality control in post processing. I doubt you’ll gain much doing a 16 pass scan though. I usually only do max of 3.

    As for manual focus, that won’t help with the Epson because the focus/lens is fixed. You have to use the height adjusters on the holders to focus. It’s a pain in the butt.

    Wet scan using the better scanning mount is relatively simple, just need to make sure you get the negative flat and use a mask around the film.
    Well, bummer on focus. I did set adjusters on holder and I am fairly close. Need a target to see how close, but so far only found one as 35mm format. Any out there in 4x5 or does it matter.

    I did a time check on length for number of passes and since it does the multi-task in one scan it doesn't save anything so I just go with it. Multi-exposure though it makes two passes so if my scene really doesn't need it, I don't do it.

    Thanks for information.

  9. #19

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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    but so far only found one as 35mm format. Any out there in 4x5 or does it matter.
    First is that you can make a contact copy of the 35mm target on 4x5 film, I'd recommend ADOX CMS 20 sheet film for that, other low ISO may also be good, and TMX. Use any cheap microscope, to check the result.

    Then you can take a caliper and use the same bed to film distance for 4x5 than for 35mm, as 4x5 and 35mm scanning uses the same lens. When using thae area guide the Epson uses the Low Res lens, that I think has the focus on the bed itself.

  10. #20
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: First scans with Epson V850

    Sounds interesting. Will have to look into it. Thanks for advice.

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