Archaic/Proto Euryscope?

[Steven Tribe]

This was a quick buy-it-now purchase!
Listed as a Petzval Voigtländer - although it looked like a Euryscope.
Serial no. is 22646, which is around 1878/9 which is very early for a Euroscope/RR from Voigtländer. I think Zinke-Sommer only started his design work at Voigtländer around 1877.
It is the usual engraving design Wien Braunschweig for the period and has no identification for the lens - as usual.
Instead of the usual single digit under the front rim, this has two and looks like:

III
5

My restricted knowledge of the Euryscopes led to believe this was probably a series III
size 5 (a) - which is certainly a size I could use!

To my surprise it has a focal length of around 24" and the F is close to F8 - and it has huge coverage. So it is much nearer the series VI size 5!

Perhaps Zinke-Sommer did some experimenting with the existing F8 type RR's before the catalogue listed Euryscopes appeared?

Here are some illustrations.
Note the "different" lens hood.
Comments gratefully received.

[cdholden]

I have a smaller RR from about 1882-3, and understood that they hadn't started calling them Euryscopes yet. Mine is not labeled as such. Yours is a few years older than mine and much longer focal length, but mine does not have the series notation or model number. It does, however, have a slot for waterhouse stops. Does yours? I can offer a photo of it when I get back on Monday.
At 24" FL, I am sure it would look much nicer on the front of my 12x20 than sitting on your table.

[Steven Tribe]

Yes it does have the waterhouse slot, with a rather unusual side support for the two sides of the waterhouse stops (missing, of course!). But this could be the usual design for Euryscopes?

Any images will be gratefully examined!

[cdholden]

Steven,
I just remembered that I bought mine from this forum. Check out the photos in the original post:
http://www.largeformatphotography.in...d.php?p=582121
Eddie even has the external links still active.

Chris

[Steven Tribe]

Yes I remember it now - Eddie has so many offers!

You asked the question:

"The thought of an aftermarket addition is curious to me. Do other lenses from the same era with waterhouse slots have a ring/shelf/lip inside to hold the stops from wobbling around, or is it just a slot on the outside of the barrel? This appears to have a ring inside, but there is also retainer/keeper spring on top of the iris assembly. The iris looks like it would be easy to remove, but the "shelf" it's mounted to has me wondering if it maybe wasn't put there as a factory option instead of a later addition."

My waterhouse slot/frame and edges answers your questions. I think the four cut threads for mounting the two side pieces have been used for your iris system.
I also noticed that the barrel has been reversed on your early Euryscope. That is the series size appears down on the mounting flange end rather than under the lens hood.
Perhaps this was necessary because of the iris design?

[Fotoguy20d]

Steven,

I have a Euryscop similar to Chris' if I remember his correctly. Serial number a bit over 25000 makes it around 1881-1882 I believe. Mine is marked #1, down by the flange, then the serial, then the waterhouse slot, then Voigtlander & Sohn, then Wien, then Braunschweig. Going and looking at Eddie's posting, looks pretty much identical to Chris' but without the aperture. Mine has the side support for the waterhouse, each held by a single screw installed from the front of the lens. I can try to get pictures later today if it'll be of interest.

Dan

[Fotoguy20d]

I had a couple of minutes now...

and, a couple of shots with this lens. The portrait is on Delta 100, the landscape on Ortho. Both wide open (I only recently made stops for this lens). It has a beautiful look wide open I think - I prefer it that way to stopped down.

Dan

[Steven Tribe]

OK - it looks as though Voigtländer may have reversed the engraving on some runs.
My holding edges have a pair of screws each - but I can imagine that Voigtländer thought that a single screw was enough for smaller lenses.
However, my edges are mounted from the back. Which means that they are identical to yours and Chris's modified iris - in respect to the engravings.
It would good optical design to place all the messy brass things out of the direct light passage - so perhaps your front and rear cells have been reversed?

[Fotoguy20d]

I've never been able to remove the rear element from the barrel on mine - maybe someone took them out and reversed them accidentally and put that one in very tight. It wasn't important enough to me to risk damaging anything.

[Steven Tribe]

I am sure now that your cells have been put back wrongly early on. The permanent stop holding rim is bevelled from the same side as the start of the engraving (that is, from the front).
As you say, it doesnt matter as these are symmetrical and the slot is midway!
My rear cell is the easy one to turn! I won't even attempt the flange (fortunate so it didn't get lost!).
Is yours approximately F8 too?