I use that same head with a p2 8x10 and a Grandagon 200, it can handle your 4.2 kilo setup no problemOriginally Posted by Tim V
I use that same head with a p2 8x10 and a Grandagon 200, it can handle your 4.2 kilo setup no problem
A follow up: My Dagor type 210mm G-Claron has turned out to be a pretty good preformer after all, as long as you don't push the movements out too fat. Past about 30mm I get hard vingnettes, but I'm not too concerned about them; I just allow for the in the composition. Not ideal for all situations, but I like having the process evident in the final prints. In terms of detail out to the edges, it's really good at f45. I must have been experiencing vibrations that have disappeared with a better tripod and lower winds.
On my 210 dagor type g Claron I’ve found coverage equal to about 80deg (maybe 350ic) when stopped down past 32 and illumination for probably another 5 degrees
Measuring a recent test at f32.5 there’s great sharpness from the center out with a band of noticeably softer image for the last 30mm or so before mechanical vignetting
Maybe the corners will improve at 45 or smaller but I never seem to stop down that much
If you have sky in that last bit of illumination you’ll never notice the softness
At the same aperture my 210/9 computar has much more coverage, I’d say 90deg of sharpness with an additional 5 of illumination. It’s an even smaller lens
For me the dagor type Claron has a little nicer rendition in bw, they’re about equal for color
Both lenses are for me much nicer than the more modern version of the g Claron or the big coverage version of the Fuji.
The only not huge one better would be the 80deg Rodenstock in any of its 3 labeled versions but it’s nowhere near as small and its coverage is strictly cut off at 80deg
I should probably sell one of these 210s (Claron or Computar), but which? I always end up using my 200 grandagon, no compromises there except for size
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Thanks for the great into, 'asf'. The Computar / Graphic Kowa 210mm is my unicorn lens and eventually I want to buy one for the extra coverage. The Dagor G-Claron is really lovely lens, and I agree it renders very nicely in BW. I'm hitting the mechanical vignette all the time with mine as I like to shift a bit, but the black corners don't bother me too much; I like the little reminders of the process in the final prints and I tell myself I'm just channelling Atget. Eventually though, I do want the Computar. Maybe I'll keep both...
Having used the 210mm Graphic Kowa for 8x10, it should not be consider the unicorn lens as it will NOT have that much more coverage than the current 210mm Dagor type 210mm you're currently using. It will suffer the same light fall-off problems as the Dagor type lens. Still have this lens, but has not been used in a very long time.
Stopping down the lens to apertures smaller than f45 is NOT a solution as it will cause other problems.
Image circle of GOOD optical performance is NOT the same as illumination image circle capability. If the lens will not deliver optimum optical performance at say f22, stopping down becomes a different set of trade offs. Use the proper lens with a image circle to cover the film format required as specified by the folks who designed the lens. Respect this design fact and reality.
Which returns to the same problem with 8x10, one of the most useful focal lengths is about 200mm, medium wide angle. The some of the best lenses in this focal length for 8x10 remains:
*200mm Rodenstock Grandagon
*210mm Super Angulon
*210mm Schneider SSXL
Center filters can further improve their light fall off if needed.
All the above are Large, Heavy, Expensive, not ideal for many light weight foldable cameras.
Which returns to the harsh reality and facts of many who are 8x10 film fans that want a lightweight set up that easy to set up and portable, but also demand the 8x10 film size. These are conflicting requirements and a trade off must be made with no exceptions.
Bernice
Here is a list of 210mm 8x10 lenses I put together some years ago:
Small/light lenses
Graphic Kowa f/9 (Copal 1, single-coated, reportedly around 380mm IC)
Computar f/9 (Copal 1, single-coated, reportedly around 460mm IC)
G-Claron f/9 (Copal 1, single-coated, covers 8x10 with very limited movements when stopped down)
Medium sized lenses
Fuji W f/5.6 (Copal 1, single-coated, 352mm IC)
Schneider Angulon f/6.8 (Copal 3, single-coated, 382mm IC)
Rodenstock APO Sironar W f/5.6 (Copal 3, multi-coated, 352mm IC)
Large lenses
Schneider Super Symmar HM f/5.6 (Copal 3, multi-coated, 356mm IC)
Schneider Super Angulon f/8 (Copal 3, single/multi-coated, 500mm IC)
Schneider Super Symmar XL f/5.6 (Copal 3, multi-coated, 500mm IC)
Rodenstock Grandagon/Grandagon-N 200mm f/6.8 (Copal 3, single/multi-coated, 495mm IC)
Here are my thoughts from a more recent post:
The sharpest option IMO is the Sironar W, but I found the coverage at times restricting. I initially tried a small lens/big lens dual solution, using a 210 APO Symmar L (barely covers) for backpacking and either a 210 SSXL (light falloff could be bothersome when significant movements are applied) or 200 Grandagon (less falloff but extremely bulky/heavy) for short hikes. I then explored lightweight f/9 solutions for field use, and compared a 210 Graphic Kowa and 210 Computar. I liked the optical performance of the Computar better than the Kowa, and it had plenty of usable coverage if one could tame the extreme amount of light falloff when significant movements are applied (if I had continued using 8x10 format I would have explored finding a center filter for it). The Computar also exhibited more field curvature than the huge, better corrected wide angle designs (SSXL, Grandagon), meaning I potentially had to stop down more to get everything sharp. Still, if I had to pick a universal 210mm 8x10 lens for field use, I'd go with either the Sironar W (if the coverage is adequate) or the Computar as the best blend of performance and size.
BTW, in recent years I migrated from 8x10 to 5x7, which solves the lightweight wide angle lens problem (the SS110XL with CF provides lots of coverage, and the 150 Sironar W has useful coverage beyond its rated image circle). And of course the film holders are much lighter. There is no 5x7 chrome film currently available (unless one cuts down 8x10) but color neg can be periodically purchased from Keith Canham.
Going to 5x7 solves the problem of wide angle lenses very nicely... Previously listed a group of wide angle lenses for 5x7 in 5mm_ish steps from 72mm to 155mm.... the the cost and lens availability is much improved in every way.
Did this decades ago, never looked back to 8x10. IMO, 8x10 and larger makes very nice contact prints which fits with the current thing of alternative print process very well. But, there are very real limitations and trade-offs.
As for the color transparency film problem for 5x7, consider cutting down 8x10 film to 5x7. It is not that difficult.
Bernice
210mm Graphic Kowa is still my most-used and fav 8x10 lens...
If there is a slight increase in image quality at wider stops via the larger and more expensive options, that's fine. I wonder how many folks actively shooting 8x10 are enlarging? I would hazard a guess of "not many." I've never found fall-off to be particularly troublesome, shooting mostly b&w.
Contact prints sold really well for me this past year at a few art festivals. 8x10 size are perfect for many people.
This is from the 210mm GK:
This is the extreme upper right-hand corner at the equivalent of a 15x enlargement if you have a 96dpi monitor:
You can see the texture of the bark. Limitations on DOF and perhaps movement is the only issue, as would be expected. Anyway, I made a few contact prints of this image and they look great. I think I shot at f/45.
Not surprising. A 210 sees 72 degrees on 8x10, cos^4 puts the corners down ~ 1.2 stops from the center.
The Angulon also comes in a Compound #3, which is dramatically lighter than the Copal 3. I have both and when I want a light weight, I go with the Compound, when I want precise times under 1", I go with the Copal.
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