Brand New Lenses

[pepeguitarra]

I think some people are unaware that film photography exists. Older folks are changing to the automatic AF DSLR. But the true photographer is the only one moving into the large format stuff. I am not sure how the 8x10 film production is going. I know I can find 4x5 easily. Once Millennials wake up from the hypnotic trance of the cell phone, they may realize that not all is instant gratification, and that stuff that you work harder is sometimes more satisfying.

[Jim Noel]

I received my first LF camera, a Speed Graphic, in 1938, and have had many cameras up to 7x17 in the interim. I have probably owned at least 100 lenses, but have never bought a new one even when I worked in a camera store.

[Pere Casals]

Growing demand (demand curve shifts outwards) or falling supply (supply curve shifts inwards)? We can't tell which without good data and statistical analysis.

I've always believed that, in alphabetical order, Fuji, Nikon, Rodenstock and Schneider stopped making lenses for LF because of falling demand and because used lenses that were competitive with new production came to market in relatively large numbers at prices below the cost of making new ones. Production of mechanical leaf shutters died with production of LF lenses. Remember, we users weren't shutter manufacturers' customers, lens makers were.

I'm all for solidarity among Dans and would like to share Dan Huiting's belief in a resurgence of LF camera manufacturers, but I just can't. 379 buyers for a new 8x10 camera that's price competitive with used ones doesn't seem like many. Niche product, and 4x5s too, both for small niches, I fear.

A propos of supply and demand, I track offerings of a couple of obscure makes of lenses. Listing on the various eBays must be very inexpensive. How else to explain the same old lenses being offered over and over and over .... again? The lenses are there in smaller numbers than a casual observer would think. Asking prices (opening bids or BIN prices) could be too high or, equally likely, very few people want the things.

Last year I went shopping for a couple of Fujinons on eBay.com and saw the same. Decent lenses at low prices offered many times.

Well, perhaps there is an scarce supply of used shutters, I need two 0 size shutters but I have abandoned the intention of acquiring them.

Often we find cells alone (this is a search: https://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?_odkw...ts%29&_sacat=0), at cheap prices, but acquiring a suitable shutter it's a challenge...

LF commercial photography has mostly disapeared, and all that used excellent gear saturated market. Also the profile of practitioners changed, with way lower average budgets in play. What is still expensive is some kinds of collectible glass...

I've the hope that LF will recover some popularity, perhaps it had to almost disapear to make a new generation feel that are pioneering

IMHO in the same way that some painters and sculptors are still there also artists to come will want a direct touch with the medium. My theory is that Michelangelo would not made the Pietà if not having a hammer, with 3D modeling software he would have designed a crappy thing...

The film market peaked in 2003 with some 960 million rolls of film, today sells are around 20 million rolls. Well, it had to be zero rolls, marketing math failed... and it is 20 million with a 5% yearly growth.

IMHO a little share of new roll film photographers will take the call of LF, this is fropm the new LF practitioners will come, but they have to walk the trip.

[jp]

It really doesn't take much oversupply from good used equipment to totally destroy the market for new equipment when the market is small and there is no compelling reason to upgrade.

[Thom Bennett]

I recently had to have a Copal #0 shutter repaired and was told that parts exist for about another two year's worth of repairs (at the current rate of repairs). Let's say the repaired shutter performs for another five years before needing another repair. My point is that within 7 years there is the chance that none of my currents lenses will be useable because there will be no parts to repair the shutters. Hopefully, I'll get a lot of work done between now and then.

[Louis Pacilla]

I recently had to have a Copal #0 shutter repaired and was told that parts exist for about another two year's worth of repairs (at the current rate of repairs). Let's say the repaired shutter performs for another five years before needing another repair. My point is that within 7 years there is the chance that none of my currents lenses will be useable because there will be no parts to repair the shutters. Hopefully, I'll get a lot of work done between now and then.

This is simply silly stuff.

[Thom Bennett]

This is simply silly stuff.

Why do you say that Louis?

[Corran]

Millennials wake up from the hypnotic trance of the cell phone

Please don't refer to Millennials as some block group of zombie cell phone users. There's plenty of us on this very forum shooting LF (4x5, 8x10, and 8x20 myself).

I think it needs to be considered that LF cameras/lenses are not necessarily the best tool for a large percentage of the resurgent film market. The "hot" cameras for a lot of people are the Contax 645, Pentax 67, Rolleiflex, and other "spur of the moment" type cameras. And there's nothing wrong with that - not to mention that these are still big steps up in terms of performance for those coming from 35mm. And then there is of course the contingent of photographers working primarily with Holgas and other toy cameras.

I know many younger photographers who tried LF and absolutely hate the workflow and effort needed to make an image. Are they wrong? There will be plenty of curmudgeons here that think this kind of fast-paced, un-technical method of photography is anathema, but that kind of attitude is merely a reflection of preference and the types of photography one practices. Not only that, but denigrating the cell phone as a camera is also nothing more than elitism. I recognize this myself despite hating the usage of my cell phone in general.

Anyway, as for "Brand New Lenses," why? Okay, I know some have a strange fixation with using something that has never been used before, but not me. Other than my Nikon D800, I have never bought a single piece of "new" equipment. I'd rather keep some money in my pocket or buy film with the excess. Some in my family also are confounded that I refuse to buy a new car, preferring well-aged ones instead. To each his own, but in terms of LF lenses, you'll have to deal with only having used equipment available soon. As far as repairs - how many shutters need more than a clean, lubrication, and adjustment? Parts availability is a very different topic.

[LabRat]

Unlike much of what's made today, I'm still using 50 to 100+ year old gear regularly, so age is not an issue...

Keep using it regularly, and service when needed and it's off for the long haul...

Steve K

[Louis Pacilla]

Why do you say that Louis?

Hey Thom

Maybe your guy only has parts for two years but there are many folks around who do repairs on Coplas and how many parts do they have and so on. Plus the many Copals laying around that can be salvaged for parts. Our large format world is small and there is a LOAD of gear out there from the pro days to keep us going for a good while. Just my view

I have perfectly working/running Ilex/Wollensak/Compound/Compur shutters that have been out of production for decades and If needed I could/can still find the parts for repair. It is a bit harder to find some older parts but we're talking Copals here and there are MANY Copals floating around today and many have had little use. Again just my view.