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Thread: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

  1. #11
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    Sandy

    John has taken on students for a fee and working with their images has made prints , so in effect he has made money working for others.

    I continually work in alt process for others , I must say it is hugely gratifying when everything goes well, and quite frustrating when the client is expecting C print or Inkjet clarity. I am trying to actively weed out
    the people who have unrealistic expectations, as they are really a drain on my time and soul.

    I am spending more time these days working in gum over palladium, and tri colour gum for myself and clients ,frankly I feel this is where my love of printing is being formed all over again. Its funny how this thing called Photography can keep us happy for a 1/2 century or more.

    I have recently made a whole series of silver negatives, and then lith prints and as well traditional silver contacts from these films, I really like this direction as well. I am hoping to place the Lambda in a young persons hands to maximize the potential of this machine.

    I am making all my clients spend time in the darkroom/dim room with me now as I am hoping they willrent out my space and facilities to make their complete shows from concept to crated work. I have the gear and actually like the bond between most of my clients, so as I get older in the tooth , I can sort of manage them, and continue with my own work.
    I have tried to rationalize how I am going to proceed in the future and this type of Artist in Residence concept really works well for me.

    I finally have about 40% of my personal portfolios in the can and I am excited to know some galleries are interested in my personal work. I would love to be able to make prints and sell them as a viable business plan moving forward.

    say hi to Sam and I really hope Laura, Barney and Lucy get to spend some time with you again. You know Laura has a soft spot for you as do all the staff up here so lets see if we can get together.

    Bob

  2. #12
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    I tried responding to your bulb question on the other thread, Bob. At one time there was a lot of UV photo printing going on around here, some of it quite large, though rarely with the aesthetic excellence of Sandy's work, which to my memory seems to have been limited to around 16x20 back then (?). A most serious players were mass producing their own platinotype paper in 4 ft wide rolls, moved on to more esoteric processes, and might finally retire now that their primary artist client has also hit the A list on scandal/backlash charts. The lot under the building will go for easily 50 million anyway, due to location. I haven't talked to them since I retired. But some time back they went from UV burners to programming industrial lasers, and had the capacity to put photographic images on slabs of granite over 20 ft long. Don't know where all their pre-press gear will end up. But the key proprietor is nearly 80, and became more interested in teaching youth aspects of alt craft. He got spooked about what certain sensitizers were doing to his health when he dropped out of Pt/Pd.

  3. #13
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    Looks like they're still there, but on a 50% workshop & teaching basis now. Gave up the lithography end of the business, which did incredibly high quality work. If you come to the SF area, we can visit them etc. In the meantime, check em out on the web: Magnolia Editions.

  4. #14
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Looks like they're still there, but on a 50% workshop & teaching basis now. Gave up the lithography end of the business, which did incredibly high quality work. If you come to the SF area, we can visit them etc. In the meantime, check em out on the web: Magnolia Editions.
    thanks Drew I will look into this.. it does look like they are using inkjet printer and laying down what they call pigment ... what is the difference between this and Piezo or the new Epson Inks.

    The pigments I use for Tri Colour Gum are right out of the tube and are very thick and heavy, Are they talking the same language...??

    There is a digital printer in Japan that lays down one pass Pt Pd directly from digital files on a flat bed .. I find this very unique and trend setting. They are connected somehow to Salto in Belgium.

  5. #15
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    There are many commercial Print Making Shops Worldwide claiming their product is superior., In fact I would be one of them, but for me its difficult to understand the techno babble some of them are spewing, and get to the real Nut of the issue.

    Are the materials (Pigment) able to stay suspended on the paper and have a fighting chance to last as long as traditional pigmented paintings of the past and some of the extremely old books.

    I am suspect of any current high end Manufactured in mass outfit making those claims... I Remember first starting colour printing on Kodak and Ciba papers and there were thousands of ads telling me that these materials were lasting memorys.. All to be proven to be Bullshit. For me I own a high end printer (Canon IPF 9400) and though I love its incredible dexterity , I have a hard time thinking the mixed pigment ratio to gum and Amonium Dichromate I mix for my prints downstairs could every get inserted into cartridges and pushed through the nozzel technology.


    Even some of these testing sites are suspect with their claims of testing as they accept product form Labs who use questionable Process control to make their prints. I am speaking specifically of a field I specialize in where digital fibre prints have been submitted by some of my competitors who use roller transport machines to process, and IMHO they are not aware of the proper Ilford Sequence. I think I am the only lab worldwide that actually uses huge trays set up with fresh chems to do this process exactly how I would do enlarger prints.. It does not surprise me to find that the prints these Labs send in for testing fail miserably .. How could they Pass.


    My point here , claims abound about permanence issues but its really hard to find real facts... I stopped my travels down Carbon Transfer for the simple reality of frilling of 100year old Carbon Prints. It really difficult to separate BULLSHIT from FACT.

  6. #16
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    Inkjet is just one of many processes they work with. They basically invent significant new methods of photo repro, and have done it repeatedly, often for a single lucrative fee. They love to innovate, and was simply pointing out a business model that you might get a few ideas from. Carbon per se is not one of their offerings. I have been in true industrial $$$$ carbon labs, where you can start smelling bankruptcy just like a toaster on too long. But they do work in processes way more permanent than monochrome carbon, like granite relief printing. I know that you might be a little grouchy at the moment about hockey scores; but can understand why it's a national day of mourning in Canada, but I'd never bring up something like that on a printing thread unless someone here wanted a gum print of the scoreboard.

  7. #17
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    ... spend a little more time with that site, Bob. They don't print for ordinary people. We're talking about individual items frequently selling for over a million dollars. Installations running tens of millions. They might net only 4% of that - yet that's still an impressive income. This is no like any "lab" you've ever seen - more like Japanese craft guilds that pass secrets generation to generation, but with a lot of secret hybrid capability too. You have ideas? They might have thought them through long before. There are some distinct local restrictions to commercial use of dichromates. That's a different story.

  8. #18

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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    Drew,

    That Magnolia Editions is impressive.

    Anyway IMHO it falls a bit apart from what is common in a print service, I feel they are unique, this is making art from severe technical innovation.

  9. #19

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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    There are many commercial Print Making Shops Worldwide claiming their product is superior., In fact I would be one of them, but for me its difficult to understand the techno babble some of them are spewing, and get to the real Nut of the issue.


    What are there are sound pitfalls for example using papers with OBAs and latter having to say to all following customers that only Hahnemühle is to be used

    At the end, you may know, what it's important today it's the man who is printing, t0o many adjust the image in photoshop in the way they like it, but they don't realize how it has to look in the monitor to be optimal in the print.

    IHMO I cannot explain to you what the thing is about...

    But perhaps we have a segmented market, in the low end marked if the machine prints every digital pixel level to the mapped density on paper then the printer has no responsibility in the customer's decissions.

    ...but some customers want the printer to adjust the digital image to be nice in the print, real proofs are made... this is another level, and who pays for that he obtains that kind of service...


    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    Are the materials (Pigment) able to stay suspended on the paper and have a fighting chance to last as long as traditional pigmented paintings of the past and some of the extremely old books....
    Well, the emotional value of digitally printed things is different, we can print it again if the thing becomes yellow in the future, and we have the same again.

    For this reason handcrafted perdurable prints are a different market, way smaller... but I feel that there is an increasing interest in that...

  10. #20
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: New Color Carbon Printing Service business... A new trend ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    ... spend a little more time with that site, Bob. They don't print for ordinary people. We're talking about individual items frequently selling for over a million dollars. Installations running tens of millions. They might net only 4% of that - yet that's still an impressive income. This is no like any "lab" you've ever seen - more like Japanese craft guilds that pass secrets generation to generation, but with a lot of secret hybrid capability too. You have ideas? They might have thought them through long before. There are some distinct local restrictions to commercial use of dichromates. That's a different story.
    Drew... they are impressive indeed....{{ This is no like any "lab" you've ever seen}} but you may not really have a handle on what a photo lab really is.. These people are using mixed media in a very interesting way, but I am reminded of BGM Imaging in the 80's where I worked as well as Scarborough Colour Labs where at BGM there were over 250 people working 7 days a week two to three shifts... I worked in this place in the repro dept making montages day in day out... I have seen big labs and big operations.... but frankly I am more impressed with Todd Gangler's prints for Sarah Moon... he is a one man operation making exquisite work.

    I am most concerned with photographic services that start with an image and ends with a wet permanent print.

    Carissa is in San Fran in a week with my friend Matthew who is showing at Photo Central.. She is there to specifically carve out a Connection with Bay Area Gallery's, Artist Groups and individual photographers. if she is successful we intend to have the third Symposium in your area early 2019... I would love to visit Magnolia..

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