Bergger Pancro 400 in sheets

[peter schrager]

try FP4 with pyro..you will be very surprised.

[Tim V]

Thanks all for your feedback.

Yes, while I think Hp5 is a good film, it's just in my experience with it it's quite straight down the middle with the developer combinations I've tried. I would like to try something else with a bit more character for 8x10", hense the questions re. Bergger.

From what I've read elsewhere, it seems people either love the stuff or find it flat. Some find the grain objectionable. I think I'll buy a box and try it out; I'll shoot it at 200ISO for a start and soup it in D71 stock and see how it takes me. In general, I like a mid-to-low contrast negative with good density in the shadows, hopefully I can get it to fit the bill. As I said above, I like to support the little guy and look forward to giving it a try.

I'm a newbie for tray development, so it'll be a combination of things to learn in the coming months.

In the meantime, if anyone else has examples they'd like to post with info on processing, I'd love to see them.

Thanks again,

Tim

[Mrportr8]

One final point if I may. When I say I shoot at EI 200 that is not to reflect that the film is slow, but it may be accounted for in the bias of my exposure meter. It is imperative to test film and processing to find your personal film speed based on your process "habits". Nothing is wrong, as long as it works and you achieve the look and performance you are after. Any manufacturers recommendations are a good starting point, your results may vary.

[Drew Wiley]

I wonder who actually makes the film. One common problem with EU films is that the sheets often have extremely sharp corners which easily scratch other sheets in the tray or even cut fingers. Have you noticed anything like that?

[Drew Wiley]

Foma had a dual-emulsion film too, really grainy, to try and bag a long scale. But Bergger 200 did it even better with a single coat emulsion of finer grain (not fine enough for me to like it in 4X5, but a dream film in 8X10). It's very hard to gauge grain structure on web images.

[Michael Kadillak]

The lure of the newcomer being the magic elixir that will amaze is an old tune. Bergger put out a film 10+ years ago that was claimed to be as good as Super XX and that was a truthful statement - as long as you only looked at the middle section of the film exposure/density relationship. What this meant was that as long as you exposed it in daylight under perfect normal conditions whereby the middle section of the film curve was in play all was well. Try to go to a N+ exposure requirement and gamma infinity quickly kicks in because the film density curve tops out - just like HP5.

Completely concur that Kodak film is like drinking expensive whiskey. Why go down that road when there are alternatives that work just as well if not better at a reasonable price point.

FP4+ is the best cost competitive alternative sheet film in the market today without question. Amazingly forgiving and produces amazing results. But the best part of FP4+ is that in a Reduced Agitation Development (RAD) process, the film curve straightens out such that you can go N+3 without hesitation and it produces amazing results.

You are obviously free to go purchase and test this new Bergger film. Let us know what you find out.

[Drew Wiley]

Bergger 200 was fine at plus one. Remarkly long straight line. But beyond that, no, it was not a substitute for Super-XX, or in water bath dev. But hey, it covered 99% of exposures I encountered, way more range than FP4 at four times the real-world speed. And it had finer grain than Super-XX. Wish it was back. FP4 is great, and I just pulled a box of 8X10 out of the freezer. But it's a bit slow for our upcoming Spring winds. I just couldn't stand the idea of thawing my TMY400 and replacing it at such a high price. I'll save it for something special.

[Michael Kadillak]

But hey, it covered 99% of exposures I encountered, way more range than FP4 at four times the real-world speed

If Bergger 200 was such a great film, why was it discontinued in relative short order?

Gut check.

Reduced Agitation Development - FP4+ can be shot at 125 ASA box speed any day of the week and go to N +3. It fundamentally changes the film curve substantively because FP4+ is not supposed to be able to do THAT..

[Keith Fleming]

The reason the original Bergger films were "discontinued" some years ago was that they were made by Forte, and Forte went belly-up and went out of business. The question remains: Who makes the current Bergger film? I ask because the films sold under the Forte brand were actually cheaper than the identical film sold as Bergger. And the Forte films were good.

Keith

[Michael Kadillak]

The reason the original Bergger films were "discontinued" some years ago was that they were made by Forte, and Forte went belly-up and went out of business. The question remains: Who makes the current Bergger film? I ask because the films sold under the Forte brand were actually cheaper than the identical film sold as Bergger. And the Forte films were good.

Keith

I looked at the Forte films at Freestyle a while back and then someone mentioned that the same film was sold as another brand considerably cheaper. I order the cheaper version of the 100 speed film and tried to develop it at least three times in three different developers and quickly concluded it was cheap film and threw the rest of the box in the trash. The time I expect on photography is not best suited for playing around. I did the same thing with a box of 11x14 HP5 trying three sheets and concluding that the narrow limitations on using it was not suite for me. I gave the rest of that box to a friend. That being said in this instance if you cannot identify the manufacturer then I question why one would opt for a black box versus a known commodity like Ilford that is at about the same price point?