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Thread: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

  1. #41

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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    I only have two Ms, a 300 and a 450. FWIW the only multi-coated LF lenses I have.
    The 300M rides aboard a Gowland 8x10 aerial camera where movements aren't possible, while the 450M does the job on an elderly, little used 12x20 Folmer & Schwing.
    As to the OP's concern I'd have to say the 450M, in good condition, would certainly be an excellent choice as would be the Fuji or an Artar
    --- although with an Artar you'll likely have an older Ilex shutter, which I'm personally quite happy with.

    As a poor bottom feeding hobbyist, I tend to jump at what's available in good condition at prices I can afford.
    That 450M sounds to be a worthy addition if it is as described by the seller.

    Let us know what you eventually choose and how it's working out.
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  2. #42

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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    IMO, those Lines Per Millimeter lens test does not reveal any where near what the total personality of a lens might be.... and there can be variations due to production and a host of other factors. The only way to really know what a particular lens is really like is to do testing with film under actual image making conditions and live with the results of these images made for an extended amount of time..

    Stanley Kubrick did this extensively, he would order up a batch of lenses, test each one individually, keep the one he liked best and returned the remainder of the batch. This resulted in SK owning many of the lenses used in the films he produced.


    Then we have trade offs based on image making needs. The Nikor M series is not for me, this does NOT mean the Nikor M is not acceptable, it only means it does not meet my image making needs, nothing more, nothing less. The Nikor M is ideal for many others, it is much an individual preference much like a host of other aspects of an image maker's-Artist's personality. At focal lengths beyond 12" or 300mm on 5x7, the preferred lenses rapidly become APO artar in barrel (most are those heavy brass barrel ones) used with a Sinar shutter. Image circle becomes much less of an issue with 5x7 format. Once the film format size goes up, choice of optics becomes limited and pricy. This as true decades ago and remains true to this day. Cost involved with larger film formats is not limited to very real optical limitations, film cost, bulk and all goes up by the square_ish.

    Then we get into Internet mythology, were some thing gets published on the web and over time becomes an accepted orthodoxy with the followers never questioning the priesthood that created that orthodoxy. This same phenomena happened with books, magazines and other media that have the power and ability to influence the thinking of information-knolwedge seekers. While this appears to be the easy way to an individual's goal, this can alienate other possible ways and ideas to achieve these same goals or more. Difficulty becomes, how does one gain the experience, knowledge, ability to decide what meets their goals and what does not.


    Bernice

  3. #43

    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    IMO, those Lines Per Millimeter lens test does not reveal any where near what the total personality of a lens might be.... and there can be variations due to production and a host of other factors. The only way to really know what a particular lens is really like is to do testing with film under actual image making conditions and live with the results of these images made for an extended amount of time..

    Stanley Kubrick did this extensively, he would order up a batch of lenses, test each one individually, keep the one he liked best and returned the remainder of the batch. This resulted in SK owning many of the lenses used in the films he produced.


    Then we have trade offs based on image making needs. The Nikor M series is not for me, this does NOT mean the Nikor M is not acceptable, it only means it does not meet my image making needs, nothing more, nothing less. The Nikor M is ideal for many others, it is much an individual preference much like a host of other aspects of an image maker's-Artist's personality. At focal lengths beyond 12" or 300mm on 5x7, the preferred lenses rapidly become APO artar in barrel (most are those heavy brass barrel ones) used with a Sinar shutter. Image circle becomes much less of an issue with 5x7 format. Once the film format size goes up, choice of optics becomes limited and pricy. This as true decades ago and remains true to this day. Cost involved with larger film formats is not limited to very real optical limitations, film cost, bulk and all goes up by the square_ish.

    Then we get into Internet mythology, were some thing gets published on the web and over time becomes an accepted orthodoxy with the followers never questioning the priesthood that created that orthodoxy. This same phenomena happened with books, magazines and other media that have the power and ability to influence the thinking of information-knolwedge seekers. While this appears to be the easy way to an individual's goal, this can alienate other possible ways and ideas to achieve these same goals or more. Difficulty becomes, how does one gain the experience, knowledge, ability to decide what meets their goals and what does not.


    Bernice
    Relative to the Apo Artar of which I have photographed with many, the differentiating proposition for me comes down to two very beautiful words that work well together.

    Multi Coating

    That said, there are many ways to get to Grandmas House......

  4. #44
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    I just noted your post, Sal. My evidence is prints. When one of those web gurus can print to my level... Otherwise ...The mere fact people do lens tests using conventional holders means they struck out and never got to first base to begin with. But sheet film is one thing; try taking the same lens you use for 8X10 and expose tiny little roll film images with it. If it outperforms reputable dedicated MF lenses, what does that tell you? I do it all the time. So why do I need alleged tests that say next to nothing actually useful?

  5. #45

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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    If one has the luxury of picking and choosing from the latest lens technology or heirloom glass, more power to you.
    I'm just grateful for what I have---including that drunken sailor of a Tessar.
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  6. #46

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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    "That said, there are many ways to get to Grandmas House"

    Precisely.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That said, a properly applied dark slide upon the lens can do wonders.

    There are those who do not find modern multi coated lenses all that appealing. Back in the days of color transparency film, modern multi coated lenses often imposed a color cast signature. This was one of the reasons why some image makers would work to achieve a color matched lens set from all from the same brand. Mixing brands would often result in a color shift in some direction. While there is an increase in image contrast with multi coated lenses, there are other effects to multi coating to overall image contrast rendition that may or may not be positive. Again, there is no absolute, there is more of knowing what a given lens personality is like and using it to an advantage.



    Bernice





    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kadillak View Post
    Relative to the Apo Artar of which I have photographed with many, the differentiating proposition for me comes down to two very beautiful words that work well together.

    Multi Coating

    That said, there are many ways to get to Grandmas House......

  7. #47

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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    Those "Drunken Sailor" Tessars can be a LOT of fun.. or one can spend time with a buttoned down suit Accountant.

    -Apply "stereotype" as each reader would have in mind.

    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by John Kasaian View Post
    If one has the luxury of picking and choosing from the latest lens technology or heirloom glass, more power to you.
    I'm just grateful for what I have---including that drunken sailor of a Tessar.

  8. #48
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    My vintage tessar is a thick-element f9 Zeiss 360 process lens. It's very sharp and easily covers 8X10 stopped down, and it has wonderful background blur, but I have to do long lenscap exposures until I stumble on an affordable 3s shutter. It too might be a drunken lens - but drunken on champagne.

  9. #49

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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    As for contrast, higher contrast can be perceived as higher resolution or "sharper".


    Bernice

  10. #50
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Impressions on Nikkor M 450mm f9

    The contrast of Nikkor M's is nearly as good as MC Kern Dagors. Less air/glass interfaces in both cases compared to plasmats.

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