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Thread: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

  1. #1

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    SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    Running across SINARon lenses (caps mine), some with “DB” shutters. A few questions, as follows:

    1. Are/were Sinarons made by Rodenstock? Are the Sinar-branded ones superior in any way?
    2. Is there a Sinaron lens that is the “same” as a Sironar-S (rather than a Sironar-N)?
    3. I have a couple spare Copal shutters and was wondering if I could get a lens in a DB shutter and simply uncrew it and remount it in a Copal shutter?
    4. How does the coverage of DB-mounted Sinarons compare to LF-Film-purposed Rodenstocks?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by pchaplo; 13-Jan-2018 at 18:16. Reason: Ask about coverage
    Dallas Texas HABS / HAER / HALS Photography
    Photographer/Author Marfa Flights: Aerial Views of Big Bend Country (Texas A&M University Press)
    Represented by Michael Duty Fine Art

  2. #2
    Dave Karp
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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    1. Are/were Sinarons made by Rodenstock? Yes. They were made by Rodenstock. Are the Sinar-branded ones superior in any way? There have been other discussions of this on the forum. You can search them out or wait for people to pipe in here. There are differences of opinion on this.

    2. Is there a Sinaron lens that is the “same” as a Sironar-S (rather than a Sironar-N)? The Sinaron SE lenses are the APO-Sironar-S equivalents.

    3. I have a couple spare Copal shutters and was wondering if I could get a lens in a DB shutter and simply uncrew it and remount it in a Copal shutter? The lens cells are the same. The front comes out of the DB shutter and into the Copal of the proper size. The issues are 1) the aperture scale, and 2) whether any spacer is needed to maintain proper distances for best performance. There was a recent discussion of the latter topic on the forum. So, if you put a 210mm Sinaron SE into a Copal No 1 shutter that was used by another 210mm f/5.6, you should be in pretty good shape. If the shutter was used by a 180mm f/5.6 or some other focal length, you are going to need a proper aperture scale, which can be home made (search the forum for techniques), purchased (maybe, if any are still available), or you can send the whole thing out to have one made (S.K. Grimes can do it).

  3. #3
    Dave Karp
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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    I should add that I have a 75mm Rodenstock Grandagon-N that was taken out of a DB shutter and mounted in a Copal shutter. I had a 90mm Grandagon-N that received the same treatment. They performed beautifully in their new shutters.

  4. #4

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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    Thanks. Now I’m seeing the SE SINARon models. Was there a 135mm SE ?
    Dallas Texas HABS / HAER / HALS Photography
    Photographer/Author Marfa Flights: Aerial Views of Big Bend Country (Texas A&M University Press)
    Represented by Michael Duty Fine Art

  5. #5
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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    Quote Originally Posted by pchaplo View Post
    Was there a 135mm SE ?
    Yes. The SE focal lengths are 135/150/180/210/240/300/360.

  6. #6

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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    Quote Originally Posted by pchaplo View Post
    4. How does the coverage of DB-mounted Sinarons compare to LF-Film-purposed Rodenstocks?
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    Scheneider and Rodenstock lenses sold by Linhof and Sinar where checked again by Linhof and Sinar additional Q.C., most of lenses not passing those Q.C. where returned because dust specs and minor issues, rather than because optical flaws. But it was not told what kind of crop was sent Linhof and Sinar...

    It is very well known that LF lenses have a significative sample to sample variation in ultimate performance, but this is very difficult to be noticed in real world photographs, still if can be seen in a lab or even with DIY tests with resolution targets.

    It has not been divulged what was the ultimate Lp/mm requirement (for each model) of Linhof/Sinar vs Rodenstock/Schneider vs Caltar. But glass stamped with the first brands was more expensive than the rest, and Caltars were cheaper, until I know, and in general because always special offers could be there. Today this is also seen in used market.

    IMHO in any case you can get a Caltar that's excellent, but you won't find any dog in the Sinar/Linhof crop. IMHO it's difficult to say more than this...

    Anecdotically, Ken Rockwell's sharpest lens is Technika (Linhof) stamped

    I'm sure he is honest, http://www.kenrockwell.com/schneider/150.htm (The review has an error, it has 6 elements 4 groups actually, I think)

  7. #7

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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    Are the later Sinaron lenses in DB boards different than both the "S" and "SE" version? Were they a different "digital" version? If so, how do specs compare?
    Dallas Texas HABS / HAER / HALS Photography
    Photographer/Author Marfa Flights: Aerial Views of Big Bend Country (Texas A&M University Press)
    Represented by Michael Duty Fine Art

  8. #8

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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses

    Hi!

    The correspondence between SINARON and Rodenstock lenses was posted by Arne Cröll 11 years ago on the German Großformat Forum
    http://www.grossformatfotografie.de/...pic.php?t=2632

    The table reads as follows:

    Sinaron-S = Apo-Sironar-N f/5.6 - 6 elements - 72°
    Sinaron SE = Apo-Sironar-S f/5.6 - 6 elements - 75°
    Sinaron WS = Apo-Sironar-W f/5.6 - 7 elements - 80°
    Sinaron-W = Grandagon-N f/6.8 - 6 elements and f/4.5 - 8 elements - 102° ou 105°
    Apo-Sinaron = Apo-Ronar f/9 4 elements symmetric - official specs 48°
    Sinaron-WE = Apo Grandagon f/4.5 - 8 elements - 110° (120° for the 35 mm)

    I can myself confirm this correspondence table, having read a German publication dated 1995 with a comprehensive list of professional photo equipment available at the time on the German market. A quick look side-by-side at the specs of Rodenstock and Sinaron lenses gives you the correspondence, at a glance

  9. #9

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    Re: SINARon vs Sironar lenses and “DB” shutters

    Links to specs added to the list. Google found them, and easily.

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