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Thread: Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

  1. #281

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    "Nobody was counting you in"

    Actually Jorge, nobody but you was excluding me. I don't recall anyone here saying I was not invited to participate. No one has backed out Jorge. The only yelling being done here is by you in your constant attacks. You see, your attacks are the only reason we don't want you involved. If you had proven to be a person that can act in a civil manner, you'd be more than welcome. But with all your name calling, etc, I want nothing to do with any test involving you. As I have no problem working with anyone else here, it would appear to be that the problem is, as usual, you.

    And, if you had bothered to read all the lab tests we posted for you, you'd realize that they all agree with us as well.....and disagree with you. You keep avoiding that topic nicely though. It seems we're always the ones open to new information and you keep avoiding it. If you have some new information to share, please do. As yet, you have been unable to provide any......although you have plenty of time for insults.

    Paul, if Dan isn't able to scan negs that large, I'll contact Kirk to see if he has a scan of both color & B&W 4x5 that could be used if he is willing.

  2. #282

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    Yeah sure, this is typical. Lets take for example Butzi, he talks about my insults but he very conveniently ignores his, and this goes for you too. In the end the opportunity once more was given to you to shut me up once and for all and as always you and your hero Butzi act like prima donnas thinking you too are the only ones who can make ink jet prints. I am not surprised you are now once again backing up, the initial offer was done by me to Paulr, I welcome Dan's participation, but as I recall I never invited you or Butzi, and this was exactly because I thought this would be your answer. Face it, you rather be able to live in ignorance that agrees with you than face the truth.

    Hopefully Paulr will participate and we will be able to come to a conclusion, we really dont need you or Butzi.

  3. #283

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    I can scan 8x10 negatives on my Microtek ArtixScan 1800f. I'd be happy to scan Dan's negatives.

  4. #284

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    What ignorance? Once again you've provided nothing to back your claims, and we have. You keep saying we're ignorant but it's us who have backed up our claims.....you haven't. Let me make it clear to you Jorge. YOU HAVEN'T. I'm still trying to find your tests done by a qualified lab that show fading in a few weeks or months in normal display settings in home, etc. No matter how much you go on Jorge, we've provided tests that show you're wrong. It's up to you to provide contradicting tests. You haven't.....so it appears they don't exist.

    And as usual, another post with insults. Does it make you feel important? I'm just curious.

    Jorge, as you appear to be nothing more than an insult repository, I'm going to take my own advice and ignore you completely. I'll focus on those who are curtious and enjoyable to work with to further our knowledge.

    I look forward to the chance to work with both Pauls, Dan, and whomever else is interested......just not with you.

  5. #285

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    Sounds good Paul. Let me know when you have a completed scan. If you're doing it, maybe save it as a 16bit TIF on DVD. 1200 dpi is more than sufficient and should fit nicely on DVD. I'm thinking 8x10 print if you're doing the same. I'll even output one to my Canon i9900. I'll use Canon dye based ink and I can do one on Canon Matte paper.

    Thanks,

  6. #286

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    Well, you apparently have a problem with reading comprehension. You keep quoting Wilhelm as your source even when you are told many of his results are suspect. Given a chance to prove otherwise with real tests, you once again back down because I am so mean. In the end you have not offered any proof either but the results of one person who does not do any real life studies. I suppose is better than nothing but anectodal evidence is more than ample contradicting his results.

    In the end here was your chance to prove me wrong, but once again you and Butzi did not have the courage to do so. I too have the same objection Butzi presented, I would not trust any of the results you reported.

  7. #287

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    Paul,

    Here is a list of three of the sites that were mentioned before for tests that confirm longevity results that have been spoken of. Are there any other papers from the livick list that you want to try? I can throw on some Moab as well. Another photographer I work with loves Red River paper. If I can grab a few sheets from him I can try that as well, both with pigment & dye.

    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/
    http://www.livick.com/method/inkjet/pg2d.htm
    http://www.imagepermanenceinstitute.org/sub_pages/8contents.htm

  8. #288

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    Let me just make my position perfectly clear. If the testing is to be done by Jorge, I'm out. If the testing is to be done by someone else, I'm in. I'd nominate either Kirk Gittings (New Mexico has abundant sunshine, right?) or Dan Smith (Utah has lots of sunshine, right?). Or better yet, send one set of prints to Kirk, and another set to Dan.

    But it seems to me like there should be no reason to exclude anyone from putting in prints. The more processes the better, and the more (and different) sets of materials, the better. I would hope that both Jorge and Dave would contribute. I'd love to see a carbon print tested, for instance, and I'd also love to see gum bichromate prints tested. It would be fascinating to see a variety of gelatin silver papers tested, as well, perhaps with different toning methods.

  9. #289

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    I have a roll of Hawk Mountain Condor Bright White that I'd be happy to make prints on for testing, and I'd be happy to cut off a chunk for other folks to print on with different inksets. It's a lovely paper but the paper base is way to bright for the work I'm printing now. The Moab and Red River papers would be nice to get results for, too.

  10. #290

    Ending Film camera sales + print fading challenge

    Well, let me make my position perfectly clear. I have no intention to abide by your conditions and requests. I made the testing invitation to Paulr. If he chooses to take it great, if he does not it is still fine with me. I do not need you nor do I have a need to comply with your requests. This was an offer made in the best intentions but it was not extended to please you. I am the one who questions Wilhelm's results and consequently the one that needs to be convinced in this forum that I am wrong. If you dont want to do that, then I am glad to continue to express my opinion about the longevity of ink jet prints and the reasons for this opinon.

    As I said, my invitation to Paulr is still open, I cannot care less what you or the printing tech want to do.

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