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Thread: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

  1. #11
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Adding hardener helps the plate emulsion survive higher temps without reticulation or frilling. Alternatively, you can lower your development temp to (no less than) 65F.
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
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  2. #12
    Pastafarian supremo Rick A's Avatar
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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Adding hardener to developer does make more sense, however using a pyro developer negates the need for it. Pyro developers have a tanning effect on emulsions similar to what chrome alum will accomplish. Shooting Efke and older Adox films was the reason I switched to PMK and P'cat. Also, never use acid stop with Efke, water stop only to avoid pinholes in the emulsion(as per Efke literature).You don't want to use acid stop with pyro developers any way as it reduces/removes stain.
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  3. #13
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    For some years I have used only Rodinal and TF5 mixed with distilled water for film, with a distilled water stop. Gas Burst is used when the quantity of negs exceed my trays skill.

    Tap wash at 68 F. All temps are controlled to 68 F by Hass valve with filters.

    I will be using Sandy King Pyrocat HD when I am ready. https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html

    My Alum experiments will continue. Initial results are encouraging.

  4. #14

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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick A View Post
    You don't want to use acid stop with pyro developers any way as it reduces/removes stain.
    I've never experienced this, although I very often use an acid stop. In fact, pyro stain is so persistent that it seems virtually impossible to remove at all without actually stripping the emulsion.

  5. #15
    Pastafarian supremo Rick A's Avatar
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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    I've never experienced this, although I very often use an acid stop. In fact, pyro stain is so persistent that it seems virtually impossible to remove at all without actually stripping the emulsion.
    I am referring to info in the book of Pyro, also Efke also recommends no acid stop as it could cause pinholes in the emulsion. I have laso never had issues with scratching the emulsion using pyro developers. I did have an issue with pinholes when I first started using Efke, then read articles that espoused dropping acid stop, zero issues since..
    Rick Allen

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  6. #16

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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Like others, I am having to learn about hardeners due to the sudden availability of dry plates.

    I, apparently, bought the last stock bottle of Tetenal Hardener from Fotoimpex, Berlin. I assume this is alum based, but the only content information says aluminium sulphate - along with the eye/skin warning. I enclose the label data with how to use and dosage for various film/paper. Note that it mentions usage in stop baths and fixing - not development! It also warns against using in powder based fixers combined with the hardener.

    I will try the hardener in "stop" bath.

    I used to get pinholes in Foma, too, when using a dedicated stop bath!
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  7. #17

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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Tribe View Post
    I used to get pinholes in Foma, too, when using a dedicated stop bath!
    I don't. I use a 2% acetic acid stop bath with foma 100, 200 and 400. The only pinholes I ever got with 200 were due to a manufacturing defect that foma admitted to me in email communication after I sent some samples to them. NB: these pinholes were not related to the use of a stop bath, as they also occurred with a plain water 'stop'.

    Nevertheless, I can imagine how very delicate emulsions would be harmed by a stop bath. I can only speak for my personal experience, however, which does not include dry plates, just lots of (foma) film and pyro developer.

  8. #18

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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Tribe View Post
    Like others, I am having to learn about hardeners due to the sudden availability of dry plates.

    I, apparently, bought the last stock bottle of Tetenal Hardener from Fotoimpex, Berlin. I assume this is alum based, but the only content information says aluminium sulphate - along with the eye/skin warning. I enclose the label data with how to use and dosage for various film/paper. Note that it mentions usage in stop baths and fixing - not development! It also warns against using in powder based fixers combined with the hardener.

    I will try the hardener in "stop" bath.

    I used to get pinholes in Foma, too, when using a dedicated stop bath!
    The other ingredient in the Tetenal product is acetic acid. This is because aluminium sulfate requires an acidic environment in which to work as a hardener - which is why you add it to an acidic stop bath or acidic fixer and not to the developer.

    For those really concerned about hardening, I think for delicate dry plate emulsions a better course of action might be to use a hardening pre-treatment (before development) using a different type of hardener.

  9. #19
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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    Seems to me adding to developer makes good sense.

    Now I need to find out how much.

    I read somewhere too much and the risk is lack of flexibility which is not an issue with glass plate.
    i've never had trouble with emulsion i have coated myself until it went into the fixer **
    some folks have a separate alum hardener bath between dev and fix or stop and fix &c
    its 30cc/1L if you use the sprint stuff ( it can be bought right off their website )

    its usually when it lifts from the plate and resettles / creases or just lifts completely off the plate
    and goes down the drain

  10. #20
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: I need FIX Hardner: ALUM?

    I read that all rapid fixers use ammonium thiosulfate chemistry compared to normal fixer which is sodium thiosulfate. And that TF5 is NOT alkaline, but neutral per PE.

    http://ehsrms.uaa.alaska.edu/CMS/Lab...0A%20&%20B.pdf

    Does rapid-fixer smell?

    Just some links to ponder.

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