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Thread: LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

  1. #1

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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    In a recent post on building a dual lens stereo camera, Struan offered a suggestion regarding LCD shutters. This really peaked my interested. I did a bit of research and have found some very interesting things about this technology. For my application, the benefit would be perfect lens sync, no vibration, no mechanical movements. Very appealling indeed. If Sinar uses them, they must be effective? I am curious about these shutters in photographic applications and possibly someone can answer some questions or lead me to more information on such.

    1. It appears the aperture can be built into the shutter? Sort of LCD apeture?

    2. From what I have read, it seems light loss when shutter is open is about 1.5 stops? This is a high price to pay for no vibration in most applications, which might be why they remain a niche item.

    3. Other then Sinar, are these shutters being implemented on still cameras?

    4. In general, it appears these shutters would add lots of cost, and very little benefit for most photographic applications. But in super high resolution photography, it appears the lack of vibration will produce gains in recorded resolution?

    As an alternative, I would like to use a vibration limited focal plane shutter behind the lens, but have not had good luck in finding new versions of such. It seems the speed graphics were the last cameras to use them on 4x5 format, which is the size I would need to cover the back ends of both lenses. They also seem to produce a lot of vibration/ TYIA

    Bill

  2. #2
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    Another limitation -- I don't know if an LCD panel is opaque enough to leave uncapped for a period of time while (for instance) waiting for a calm moment when making a longish exposure. One might get some impression even when the shutter is technically closed...
    If a contact print at arm's length is too small to see, you need a bigger camera. :D

  3. #3

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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    Don, I read some literature on these, and they state near perfect light extinction. I can't imagine Sianr using them if this was not the case. In addition, I could opt for the lens caps till that moment. Also, I plan to leave the copal shutters in, as I still need apertures and I am not sure how LCD's can have apertures.... but I guess its possible....but I would be happy using them as shutters only. One recent literature I just read, stated their is only a 20% light loss when open, that would pretty amazing.... not a big price to pay for shutters with zero vibration, super fast 1/4000th, and perfect sync.

  4. #4
    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    Perfect syncronization is only a factor for photographing fast things with ambient light.

    What did you have in mind to be photographed in stereo?
    "It's the way to educate your eyes. Stare. Pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long." - Walker Evans

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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    People, motion scenes, etc.

    Also, perfect sync is even beneficial in any scene, as a bird is flying in a scene, it may be a bit stretched, but as long as they are equally stretched, no retinal rivalry will occur.

  6. #6
    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    So you've tried the dual shutter releases and you don't like them? I bought one for use with two old Nikons. Admitedly, I photograph things that are pretty much still in the first place, so if one camera shutter is not perfectly synced with the other then it doesn't make much difference.

    How will you be viewing the resulting stereograph made with large format cameras? I think it would be a bit exagerated anyways with two 4x5's next to each other.
    "It's the way to educate your eyes. Stare. Pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long." - Walker Evans

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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    Brian, what dual shutter releases are you referring to? I assume you mean dual cable releases? if so, they are not reliable at all, unless lots of maching is done and customizing it the lens board, which is still one of my options on the table. The images are 6x7 format, viewed in MF viewer....

  8. #8
    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    I just had a thought about this. Why don't you get two parts-only grade Graflex cameras, and then canabalize them for the solenoid actuated shutter release mechanism? Since both shutters will fire under electrical control, you will be able to have extremely close synchronization.
    "It's the way to educate your eyes. Stare. Pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long." - Walker Evans

  9. #9

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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    Brian, I am hoping I can make the LCD's work. The Graflex shutters are a last resort, as the vibrations are extreme considering the super high resolving lenses and films of today vs. 60 years ago....also, the images of most graflex cameras were 4x5, and most for press, so no enlargements, they can get away with a lot of slop.....

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    LCD shutters - any experience? 4x5 FP shutters?

    Bill, you keep on repeating that modern lenses are much sharper than even early post-WWII lenses. Also that films are better.

    That films are better isn't controversial at all, but the big gain in lenses since WWII is not in central resolution, it is in coverage. Your application -- nominal 6x7 negatives shot with lenses no shorter than half normal for the format -- doesn't need lenses with much coverage. And at the apertures you seem to have in mind to use, f/11 or thereabouts, modern lenses' improved sharpness, if any, will largely be lost to diffraction anyway.

    It sounds to me like you've drunk from the same well as the gigapixel and Ross zealots and are warming up a propaganda engine parallel to theirs.

    Why don't you just put better lenses on a well-sealed well-baffled Sputnik and be done with it? I appreciate that Sputniks as delivered are poorly sealed and have designed-in internal reflections, but other people have tamed them.

    And if you use a Graflex focal plane shutter, well, vibration can be tamed too.

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