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Thread: Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

  1. #111
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

    Hi Randy,

    Great question!

    The emulsion is thick (rapid fixer takes about 1-2 minutes to clear), and it's hardened in the fixer per my recommendations. The wash times I suggest were numbers I saw in Journals from the late 1800s, so I kept those as conservative numbers.

    Additionally, I just haven't tested for washing. That's kind of a key insight into my engineering mindset (and all good engineers, of course). I'll only make improvements or changes that have been verified as acceptable with testing. I have a priority list of improvements to make within available bandwidth, so those come first.

    That said, it'd be awesome if someone were able to test for shorter wash times with a proven method and conclusive results. I'd love to know. I just can't get to it myself.


    One thing I did do is put "gentle agitation" to rest starting with boxes labeled "Batch 006".

    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.etsy.com/shop/Pictoriographica
    .. because my wife is happy when I can cover my photography expenses!

  2. #112
    Foamer
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    Re: Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

    I tried to load some 4x5 plates in my 4x5 Graphic Plate (holders) Type II. Loading them in the dark (no red light) I couldn't figure out where the slot was in the holder. Took the holder back out into the light and realized the plates are only held by a lip at the top and bottom. Back into the dark, still couldn't get them to go. The plates were just a bit too wide. The holders have an opening 102.1mm but the plates seem to be about 2mm wider than that. I suppose I need the older wooden plate holders from c.1905?


    Kent in SD
    In contento ed allegria
    Notte ed di vogliam passar!

  3. #113
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: Fresh 4" x 5" dry plates

    I can second that. Tonight I had problems getting plates 3 and 4 into 5X7 reducers to 4X5. Gave up and got one fairly easily into a 1905 Premo 4X5 holder. The second 4X5 I had to force in and it was a devil to get it out.

    That said I have 2 drying right now and will scan tonight.

    I ruined my plates 1 and 2 by making a mistake with my fixer. Checking my internal notes, i mixed the fixer the same as the developer. 25/1. It just washed off the emulsion.

    I will supply more details with the scans.

  4. #114
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Two23 View Post
    I tried to load some 4x5 plates in my 4x5 Graphic Plate (holders) Type II. Loading them in the dark (no red light) I couldn't figure out where the slot was in the holder. Took the holder back out into the light and realized the plates are only held by a lip at the top and bottom. Back into the dark, still couldn't get them to go. The plates were just a bit too wide. The holders have an opening 102.1mm but the plates seem to be about 2mm wider than that. I suppose I need the older wooden plate holders from c.1905?


    Kent in SD
    Hey Kent,

    I'm sorry you're having trouble...The plates don't do you much good if you can't use them. I'm making 4x5's this weekend, so I'll be able to get some new ones out to you later this week if you can stand the wait. These teething troubles always happen, but it still sucks when they do.

    The older wooden plate holders -- which are what I extensively tested ... thinking that's all that was out there -- consistently have an opening of about 104.5 or so mm (4.1" - 4.15"). So lesson learned: Once I found out there's holders undersized from that (Chamonix, Linhof, and now Graphics), I started cutting plates to 100mm width to ensure the plates will fit in everything. The other thing that helps is that I bought a benchtop glass cutter... the edges are much straighter than the drunken meanderings I was making by hand.

    Thanks for your patience. We'll get you squared away.

    -Jason
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.etsy.com/shop/Pictoriographica
    .. because my wife is happy when I can cover my photography expenses!

  5. #115
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: Fresh 4" x 5" dry plates

    Ok, don't all scream at once. Here are 4x5 plate #3&4. #1&2 I screwed up. Blanks.

    So many variables at once make these poor first examples, but Jason and others want samples.

    Shot inside with strobes. Sekonic incident read ISO 3 F11. Gundlach Portrait 16-1/4" f6 wide open. Soft.

    Rodinol 1/25, water stop. TF5 1/3. 5/1/5 min.

    #1 2 Pops strobe. Short 3 min wash on #1 Saw frilling.

    #2 1 pop strobe. Added pinch Alum to both developer and TF5. Frilling is gone.

    The 4X5 glass is too big didn't fit in Kodak 5X7 to 4X65 reducers. Push fit into 1906 Premo 4X5 plate holder.

    I converted to B&W and added a tint. I always do.

    1 Frilling TF5 FS PS by moe.randy, on Flickr

    2 Alum both RO9 TF5 by moe.randy, on Flickr

    As scanned. by moe.randy, on Flickr







    I strobe pop.



    Both with wedge as scanned.

    #1 exposed with 2 pops of strobe. Saw

  6. #116

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    Re: Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

    I will trying out the 1/1 plate size within the next few weeks or so! I have been doing the final checking of an old plate camera - light seals, GG distances and some dedicated full plate lenses. There is no doubt, but that book type holders do allow for considerable variation in actual glass plate dimensions. My holders will accept sizes in the range 16.0 to 16.5cm by 21.3 to 21.6cm. This is for two different holder manufacturers.

    Looking at various other wet/dry plate holders I have, including back loaders, this kind of range is typical.

    Preparing for hardening - of which I have zero experience - I see there are recommendations for adding hardener at the stop bath stage?

  7. #117
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

    Steven,

    Those dimensions seem to be tight for whole plate. Is there any way you can do a fit check and let me know if the plates fit?

    I assumed, from an example I had measured, that whole plate holders had 16.76cm (6.6") wide openings. I also had original whole plates to base my cuts off. They were exactly 6.5 x 8.5.
    Last edited by Nodda Duma; 14-Jan-2018 at 06:38.
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.etsy.com/shop/Pictoriographica
    .. because my wife is happy when I can cover my photography expenses!

  8. #118
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    Re: Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

    I am in the process of modifying three wooden 5X7 film holders to take 4X5 plates. I am hoping I can work them to take two plates each, rather than just one.

    The wash times I suggest were numbers I saw in Journals from the late 1800s, so I kept those as conservative numbers.
    Jason, do you know if those wash times were for "running water" - did they have running water back then? I usually just soak my film for 20-30 minutes with changes of water every 5 minutes or so - just wondering if soaking plates will work as well.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/bigger4b.jpg

  9. #119
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: Fresh 4" x 5" dry plates

    Randy,

    Your wash time questions are pertinent I washed my J L plates # 3 & 4 with reduced water leting them soak in a 5x7 tray with the same mild agit i used in the chems. I gently poured off the water 3 times and refilled with a soft flow not on the emulsion. Shortest wash was 3 minutes and longest 6 minutes. So far.

    We have many variables right now. Even our water is a huge variable.

    Right now I am not concerned with archival methods. I am implementing for the first time Ilfords reduced water washing. https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-co...Wash-Water.pdf

    Jason, my 4X5 plates are too long. The 5X7 glass i had custom made is 1/16 under nominal and very loose in my holders, almost but not quite falling our. I find that preferable as it's easy to get them out of the holder. My hands are not nimble.

  10. #120
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Fresh dry plates in a variety of sizes

    I don't have running water in my darkroom, so my plates get washed for 20 minutes in an 11x14 tray of tap water with a small pump that keeps the water circulating. I haven't seen degradation in 2 1/2 years..that's all I can say. I can't speculate about long-term storage beyond the washing methods I recommend on the box.

    I'm sure your method will be fine -- it seems reasonable, and even I'm not concerned about archival washing with my own plates -- but I just can't speak to the archival quality beyond what original sources say without testing.

    I'll add it to "The List" for future investigation, though.
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.etsy.com/shop/Pictoriographica
    .. because my wife is happy when I can cover my photography expenses!

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