Darkroom Toned images

[Corran]

Eric - I gotta thank you for our discussion Sunday. I hadn't realized the differences in toning color evident when toning with selenium before vs. after (or not at all) with the thiourea toner.

This is from the toning session I did today. The rich sepia happened when selenium toning was done before the toning. More chocolate brown was with no selenium. Ilford Warmtone tends more towards the sepia while MGIV tends to a bluish-brown. Some variation in reduction time created some variance in the tone. Far right image is untoned.

[bob carnie]

Bob - In a recent experiment trying different developers I put an exposed image in LPD for about 45 seconds then stuck it in the PF106 for another 30 seconds. Surprisingly the image was very cold and bluish. I did not finish processing this paper but noted it as something to try again later. Paper was likely Ilford MGFB classic or warmtone. As soon as my darkroom gets warm again I may try to repeat this test.

Ethol LPD is a PQ developer while PF106 is a Hydroquinone +Glycin developer so other developers in same families may alter color. One might try ilford PQ developer followed by ilford Multigrade developers.
Multigrade mixed with PF106 does nothing different than multigrade.

I moved to gum over palladium so that I could get good blue, I chased this blue for years in silver with some success but a lot of failure, actually too much failure to make it viable for me to continue.

with gum over palladium I can get any look I want and the second hit of gum raises the dmax to the point you think the could be silver prints... I am hooked.

[bob carnie]

Eric - I gotta thank you for our discussion Sunday. I hadn't realized the differences in toning color evident when toning with selenium before vs. after (or not at all) with the thiourea toner.

This is from the toning session I did today. The rich sepia happened when selenium toning was done before the toning. More chocolate brown was with no selenium. Ilford Warmtone tends more towards the sepia while MGIV tends to a bluish-brown. Some variation in reduction time created some variance in the tone. Far right image is untoned.

All good work.. Bryan... Gold toner very expensive can be used after the slight sepia which will give amazing colour in the mid to upper highlights.

[Corran]

Thanks Bob. I definitely want to try gold toner at some point, I just haven't had the funds to buy it! But I'm more of a neutral to warm kinda guy. Certain images though definitely look good cold toned.

Years ago I printed some on Ilford MGIV and toned it in a very concentrated selenium toner, 1:4 or so if I remember, and got some really fine blue tones with neutral highlights. I never mix selenium that strong anymore (usually 1:15 now).

[bob carnie]

Gold with Sepia first will give you beautiful warm mid to upper highlights followed by selenium a wonderful combination.. IMO works best with Cold Matt Papers. Ilford Warmtone takes it too far in the warm direction for my tastes. I love Coldtone matt with a rich toner applied.

[Corran]

I will try to get a scan later today, but here's an experiment I did this morning. The left image is on Ilford MGIV, toned as usual with thiourea. Right image is bleached, redeveloped in Neutol, and then put in the thiourea toner. It gives a subtle warmth to the shadows.

[esearing]

Curious - redevelopment in Neutol - did you see highlights come up first or shadows? And how far did you redevelop before you inserted into the Thiourea , rough estimate (80%, more/less)?

[Corran]

Probably pulled it out a little late, so the toning is subtle. Probably developed to 90%. It comes up just like a normal print, shadows first and then strengthening with more time, along with highlights. I think this may be a way to dial down the tone or maybe split tone the print. Will experiment more next week, maybe bring some to our upcoming NGLFP meeting.

[Corran]

Eric, you may be interested in my latest experiment.

Here are three prints side-by-side, still wet. First is toned in thiourea to completion, after bleaching it fully. Second is bleach fully, then put into the thiourea until the tone was starting to come back, maybe 50%, and then redeveloped to completion in 130. Lastly, a straight print. All are on Ilford MGIV.



You may notice I switched the order of redevelopment - thiourea first. This is because I wanted warm shadows, not highlights, and also because the thiourea is slower than my 130 so it made more sense (Neutol is slower, but I threw out my old Neutol that was mostly exhausted). I think I need to try one more with even less toning before development. It seems deceptive on how much is "enough" if I want a subtler tone. I also messed around with selenium but it didn't do much for me. What would be interesting is a warm, chocolate-y shadows with brilliant, almost cool-toned highlights. But more importantly, the half-tone-then-redevelop method gives a subtler overall toning effect. The very sepia/straw-color evinced by fully toning is not my favorite, which happens especially with MGIV. However it does work with some subjects - this palmetto, dead, was about that color. Another thing to play with - use rubber cement to selectively tone just the straw color... .

[esearing]

Corran, you can achieve more variations toward the darker brown with full toning if you adjust your mix of thiourea and Sodium Hy. to 20/80%, or 30/70%. Remember the purpose of toning is for the Archival replacement of the silver. Even a quick dip in Selenium would help with that for the darker tones. If you want the blueness in the shadows gold toner works best for that but is pricey.

And if you are crazy like me try these:

During printing setup two developer trays with your normal developer (130).
In the second tray add 10ml Selenium [KRST] per liter. Fully develop in first tray, then 10-20 seconds in second tray. Your image will shift in tone to a bluer black with a hint of warmth in highlights. (discard after session)
For another loos you can also add .5grams per liter of ammonium chloride to your 2nd tray (no selenium) and you will get some paper fogging which gives an overall warmer tone. More time, more fogging. (Extremely noxious odor)
Increasing Potassium Bromide (restrainer) also gives a warmer effect but it also slows developer and lets you take the print out before max-black occurs which maybe what I see as warmer. I suppose it is the Expose longer and pull early that some folk do with Foma papers to get a certain look.