Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    251

    ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    I'm making plans to build some 14x17 holders, and I'd like them to meet ANSI standards, but when I look at this page, it says the 'exposure height' is 17.062 inches. I have some 14x17 x-ray film, and it measures 16.906 inches long. How's that work?

    Is x-ray film different from standard film (I didn't think it was); or is this page incorrect; or are the ends of the film not captured by the holder; or am I missing something it the definition of 'exposure height'?

  2. #2
    Randy Moe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    9,181

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    Film area coverage usage varies somewhat. I have 14 X 17 plastic medical XRay holders and they turn 17" into 16". I lose 7/8"

    X-Ray film is 14x17" minus maybe 1/8" in each dimension. All LF film is undersized to slide into holders.

    They are no ULF holder standards. The standards only go to 8X10. I was looking at 1951 ASA standards last night as published in 1970 National Camera Photo Technology Data Book.

    What is your data source?

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,200

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    .....

    They are no ULF holder standards. The standards only go to 8X10. I was looking at 1951 ASA standards last night as published in 1970 National Camera Photo Technology Data Book.

    There were ANSI standards for 11X14" and 14X17" film holders, but not for other formats like 7X17, 8X20, 12X20 and 20X24.

    However, not all 14X17" holders were built to ANSI standard.

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  4. #4
    Randy Moe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    9,181

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    Sandy is the last word on this.

    Found this online. http://altphotolist.org/lists/alt-ph.../msg00528.html

    Every time I post this next link, somebody, not Sandy, tells me it's all wrong. http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html

    I buy my holders and would not be able to make one to any standard.

    I do know by purchase of new holders, ymmv.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    251

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    Thanks for the responses!

    Randy: My source for the data is at the link in my OP, which claims to get them directly from ANSI; there's even a link to ANSI there. My understanding, from reading somewhere here or elsewhere, is that x-ray may be the reason there is an ANSI standard for 14x17, since it is a common size for chest x-rays. But who knows if that's actually true?

    Sandy: I guess my question is: how can holders be built to the ANSI standard if that standard calls for an opening that is longer than the actual film? I've got a sheet of Kodak 14x17 x-ray film in front of me right now, and it's short of 17 inches long by a hair less than a sixteenth of an inch***, but it is shorter. Would it not tend to fall out of a holder with an opening that is longer than 17 inches?

    I just looked at that page again, and it seems that this 'exposure height' measurement gives too-long dimensions in each film format: 2x3, 3x4, 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, 11x14; all show a length that is longer than the nominal long dimension of the film format: 3 is 3.338; 4 is 4.228; 5 is 5.002; 7 is 7.010; 10 is 10.026; 14 is 14.086; and 17 is 17.026. The long dimension of my Riteway 4x5 holders is 4.75; and my Ansco 5x7s are 6.625. So what does this mean? What does this measurement actually measure?

    *** Does this mean that x-ray film comes in significantly different sizes? If Randy's measures 1/8th less in each dimension, and mine is less than 1/16th, I'd better give myself some wiggle room.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    251

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    The crucial information from the link Randy gave above is:

    'I think this is for the 14X17 holder.

    Height =19.563" minimum
    Width = 15.938"-16.000"
    Thickness =0.686" maximum
    Depth to septum (T) = 0.320" - 0.016"
    The far edge of the raised ledge that fits into the slot on the camera back
    is 19.288" maximum from the end of the holder where one loads the film. It
    should be 0.061" +/- 0.015" high.
    The bottom flap (F) is 1.043" maximum.'

    This seems like enough information to go on for the making of my holders, and then my camera. I can use the sheet of film for any other info I need. As for the thickness of the holder, I'm going with something above the maximum given here. 0.686 inches would only give me room for a septum 0.046 inches thick, or less than a sixteenth of an inch.

    But I'd sure be grateful for any feedback from folks who've got or made holders of their own.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    251

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    Randy: we just cross-posted. The link you gave as the one everyone says is 'all wrong' is the one I referred to in my first post. I'll read your other one with care. Thanks again to both of you.

  8. #8
    Randy Moe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    9,181

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    I unboxed 1 of my 3-14x17 holders. NOS. Tomorrow I will waste one sheet of 14x17 2X, No big deal. Glad to do it.

    What's missing on those ANSI specs is the rebate areas on the width and the length. Rebate area is what holds the film in. And barely the bigger everything gets.

    My measurement tools are packed somewhere...else. I did some rough tape measurements. The side rebates will be greater than 1/4" each. The usable image dimensions on these are 13-9/16" wide and 16-1/4". I suggest you keep these large rebates to hold your film better. Film is floppy at this size. It will hang down when shooting down. It will warp when shot vertically. I suggest you shoot at the Moon for film flatness. (small joke) The holder main body is about 5/8" thick.

    The film I have is Kodak made Carestream, cut in Mexico, double sided (2X) CSG with the same blue tint all X-Ray seems to have, to prevent eyestrain.

    I'll measure it tomorrow when I can get to it. I guessed at the minus 1/8" dimension.

    If you want more pics, just ask.

    IMG-0547 by moe.randy, on Flickr

    IMG-0549 by moe.randy, on Flickr

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    251

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    Thanks, Randy, this is a great help! More pictures, at least for now, aren't needed. I am curious to know if your film size is close to mine.

    I'd love to buy my holders, but I just cannot justify the cost. My rough estimates so far tell me that I can buy the materials to make three for less than what it would cost to buy one; far less, depending on the price I go by ($585!?). And if I make three to the same specs, and then build a camera around them, I won't really need to be too concerned about exactly matching any standard other than the actual film size.

  10. #10
    Randy Moe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    9,181

    Re: ANSI Standard for 14x17 holder seems odd

    Hi Paul, I had to wait for sunset. My darkroom is not ready.

    The film IS minus 1/16" both ways from 14x17"


    I am sure we all eagerly await your creations! Sorry watching 'The Crown'.

    IMG-0555 by moe.randy, on Flickr IMG-0556 by moe.randy, on Flickr
    These holders have 1/8" of room in both dimensions for film. The film could be exactly 14x17 and fit.

Similar Threads

  1. ANSI Film Holder Details
    By David Nash in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 13-Apr-2018, 12:10
  2. Film Holder T-depth and ANSI Standard
    By Mike Castles in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 4-Nov-2007, 18:45
  3. 11x14 Fildelity Holder (or ANSI Standard) Dimensions?
    By alec4444 in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2-Sep-2006, 08:11
  4. film holder depth- ANSI spec?
    By Mark Sampson in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 19-Jun-2006, 14:04

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •