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Thread: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

  1. #11

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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    Quote Originally Posted by xkaes View Post
    Read what I wrote. I said "get a copy of the official rules in your country". That means the country you are in or traveling through -- OBVIOUSLY.
    VERY OBVIOUSLY, your country is not the country you pass through on the way to your country... Read what the OP wrote.

  2. #12

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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    I fly regularly between the U.S. and Europe. You can't expect and shouldn't demand (or even bother to ask for) a hand-inspection in European countries. I find it rather uninformed and culture-centric to expect U.S. regulations to be universal and practiced in other countries. Assuming that security officers in other countries are ignorant or negligent and that you know the rules better than they is simply arrogant.

    FWIW, I regularly take exposed and unexposed film, in half-full boxes and even loaded in filmholders on flights in Europe. I simply put them through the scanner, after taking them out of my carry-on and putting them into a separate bin so they won't have to go through twice. I've had 400-speed film scanned eight or more times this way often with absolutely no damage whatsoever. Not having researched this before traveling with film is a bit negligent, IM-HO.

    And, information about whether hand-inspection for film is available in your country is readily available from your airline or travel agent. Arguing with security officers in another country (and in a foreign language for them) is a bad idea, period. Add to this the already negative perception of American tourists as being ignorant and condescending and that's a recipe for inconvenience, to say the least. I'm glad the OP managed to get through his security check with everything undamaged and make his flight.

    Best,

    Doremus

  3. #13

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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    You can't expect and shouldn't demand (or even bother to ask for) a hand-inspection in European countries.
    Best,
    Doremus
    Absolutely correct. I fly in Europe several times in several countries each year.

  4. #14
    Louie Powell's Avatar
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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    I fly regularly between the U.S. and Europe. You can't expect and shouldn't demand (or even bother to ask for) a hand-inspection in European countries. I find it rather uninformed and culture-centric to expect U.S. regulations to be universal and practiced in other countries. Assuming that security officers in other countries are ignorant or negligent and that you know the rules better than they is simply arrogant.

    FWIW, I regularly take exposed and unexposed film, in half-full boxes and even loaded in filmholders on flights in Europe. I simply put them through the scanner, after taking them out of my carry-on and putting them into a separate bin so they won't have to go through twice. I've had 400-speed film scanned eight or more times this way often with absolutely no damage whatsoever. Not having researched this before traveling with film is a bit negligent, IM-HO.

    And, information about whether hand-inspection for film is available in your country is readily available from your airline or travel agent. Arguing with security officers in another country (and in a foreign language for them) is a bad idea, period. Add to this the already negative perception of American tourists as being ignorant and condescending and that's a recipe for inconvenience, to say the least. I'm glad the OP managed to get through his security check with everything undamaged and make his flight.

    Best,

    Doremus

    Absolutely true!

    And one other point regarding the comment about the EU - this wasn't a case of stringent EU rules. This was a case of typical Dutch thoroughness. That's why I like flying through Schipol - security is very tight, and risk is at an absolute minimum. And normally, it is done with such efficiency that you don't really realize how competent they are at doing the job.

    I can recall many instances of pat-down inspections at Schipol that were more thorough that the annual physical done by my GP.

  5. #15

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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    from what i understand
    there is more radiation bombarding your film IN the plane as you fly 20K feet up, than the scanners emit ..
    ==
    ive travelled from the states to europe bunces and no one but the states will hand inspect your film.
    that said, i have had film travel through these baggage scanners countless times 800+3200 speed
    nothing happens. if this was 1980 i am sure it would be a different thing, but its not.


    UMMV
    yes, good point John ...

    though i was convinced a roll of 120 i processed years back when i was more laissez-faire about x rays got fogged and super grainy ... i think it was due to it getting cooked in the checked baggage scanner ... but since then i have tried to be more cautious ...

  6. #16

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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    I fly regularly between the U.S. and Europe. You can't expect and shouldn't demand (or even bother to ask for) a hand-inspection in European countries. I find it rather uninformed and culture-centric to expect U.S. regulations to be universal and practiced in other countries. Assuming that security officers in other countries are ignorant or negligent and that you know the rules better than they is simply arrogant.

    FWIW, I regularly take exposed and unexposed film, in half-full boxes and even loaded in filmholders on flights in Europe. I simply put them through the scanner, after taking them out of my carry-on and putting them into a separate bin so they won't have to go through twice. I've had 400-speed film scanned eight or more times this way often with absolutely no damage whatsoever. Not having researched this before traveling with film is a bit negligent, IM-HO.

    And, information about whether hand-inspection for film is available in your country is readily available from your airline or travel agent. Arguing with security officers in another country (and in a foreign language for them) is a bad idea, period. Add to this the already negative perception of American tourists as being ignorant and condescending and that's a recipe for inconvenience, to say the least. I'm glad the OP managed to get through his security check with everything undamaged and make his flight.

    Best,

    Doremus

    some excellent points there. i blame the forums and what i read there rather than any sort of personal cultural attitudes ... i'd simply assumed these 'rules' were 'international' in nature and never really had much of a problem with hand checks in europe before ... well ... live and learn i guess!

    the reason i posted though ... was to help anyone else who got in a sticky situation... perhaps they can use the same 'trick' i did ...

  7. #17

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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    I believe we all have different experiences, following applies to my experience with Polaroid and Fuji instant film only.

    I routinely travel with my Wista 4x5 RF and 12-15 boxes of Fuji FP100c45 and FP3000b45 in checked luggage as I'm carrying on my "digital bag". Last trip went from San Francisco to Hong kong to Shenzhen to Hong Kong to Singapore to Indonesia to SIngapore to Frankfurt to Morocco where the film was ultimately shot after being x-rayed 10 times through airports luggage systems, ferries and two airport arrival systems. There was no sign of any fogging nor X-ray exposure "stripes" on the 100 ISO nor the 3000 ISO film. Maybe I got lucky. I did a similar trip last year to Sicily without any issues after 7 X-ray scanning devices.

    OTOH, I've had 5 boxes of Polaroid 803 (ISO 800) ruined by X-ray stripes when shipped from Russia to San Francisco few years back. Diagonal low contrast stripes all over the film ... This is the only time that I've seen issues with air shipping since my foray in shooting LF on instant film.

    Cheers,

    Rudi A.

  8. #18
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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Dewdney View Post
    yes, good point John ...

    though i was convinced a roll of 120 i processed years back when i was more laissez-faire about x rays got fogged and super grainy ... i think it was due to it getting cooked in the checked baggage scanner ... but since then i have tried to be more cautious ...

    lol in that case maybe all my film got cooked because it is all foggy and super grainy, just like i like it !

  9. #19

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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    Quote Originally Posted by Amedeus View Post
    I believe we all have different experiences, following applies to my experience with Polaroid and Fuji instant film only.

    I routinely travel with my Wista 4x5 RF and 12-15 boxes of Fuji FP100c45 and FP3000b45 in checked luggage as I'm carrying on my "digital bag". Last trip went from San Francisco to Hong kong to Shenzhen to Hong Kong to Singapore to Indonesia to SIngapore to Frankfurt to Morocco where the film was ultimately shot after being x-rayed 10 times through airports luggage systems, ferries and two airport arrival systems. There was no sign of any fogging nor X-ray exposure "stripes" on the 100 ISO nor the 3000 ISO film. Maybe I got lucky. I did a similar trip last year to Sicily without any issues after 7 X-ray scanning devices.

    OTOH, I've had 5 boxes of Polaroid 803 (ISO 800) ruined by X-ray stripes when shipped from Russia to San Francisco few years back. Diagonal low contrast stripes all over the film ... This is the only time that I've seen issues with air shipping since my foray in shooting LF on instant film.

    Cheers,

    Rudi A.
    Thanks for this info - I had been curious about x-rays and shipping.
    ~nicholas
    lifeofstawa
    stawastawa at gmail

  10. #20
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    Re: an interesting experience at Schipol Airport Amsterdam - re: X-RAYs

    This seems like a good time to bring up something I've been meaning to post.

    I flew from Phoenix, AZ earlier this year and I was alerted on another forum that they were a test airport for a "new" carry-on scanner that may be just as unsafe for film as checked baggage.

    I was already planning on asking for a hand-check so I wasn't worried. I did that and it turned out the TSA agent was a nice older man who knew what film was and we had a nice conversation. I thought it was a great time to ask about the supposed new x-ray scanner and if it was dangerous for film.

    What he told me was that the new scanner which was being trialed at PHX actually was a much higher resolution imaging machine. The way this is achieved is identical to what many photographers do by stitching multiple images - the machine takes many images and then combines them to achieve that higher resolution. This has the side affect of dosing the x-ray'd item multiple times, perhaps 10-12 or more. If x-ray damage is indeed cumulative, this makes the damage really stack up if these machines are adopted universally.

    The TSA agent repeated the typical line that nothing under 400 ISO should be affected, but regardless I personally would rather go for a hand-check. Why risk it?

    There's a million anecdotal stories. My assumption is that the TSA or manufacturers aren't doing rigorous tests of these x-ray machines to see if it consistently fogs film over time or in how many doses. Why would they today? I am sure it was demanded of them when film was a billion-dollar industry closely intertwined with travel and leisure, but no longer. So assuming these machines become more commonplace (perhaps in larger American cities, and then abroad?), be careful.
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