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Thread: Disturbing copies

  1. #11

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    Re: Disturbing copies

    At $368 this isn't that much less than the Ries J250 ($390.60 with black knobs, $411.60 with bronze knobs). It does have some additional features, as was mentioned a panning base, also the camera platform has two levels built-in and both tilt axes have graduated (but un-numbered) scales. It looks like these are made by the same company as the Sinar Pan Tilt head copies also on eBay. These look nicely made and may very well be. I think China is fully capable of making things with as much quality as the market demands. It's just that much of the market doing the demanding is that of Walmart and Harbor Freight.
    David

  2. #12

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    Re: Disturbing copies

    One of their heads has the 6" platform with the 4" mounting base. Thus I can get the 6" square platform with my Ries J100-2. That and the fact that I always found the pan technique of the Ries head to be bad. Those two features alone make the head interesting. I have a lens board adapter from the same company. Very nice machining.

  3. #13
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: Disturbing copies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jac@stafford.net View Post
    Is my view obsolete? .
    No concern over Antonio Stradivari copying Amati?

  4. #14
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: Disturbing copies

    I'd feel better to see how it performs on a MTS 100K Load Frame. I used to run load to failure tests. Like bolts, castings, shims, anything we could fit in it. We could verify it's 66kg load rating. One time I used a MTS Million Lb Load Frame, aka 'Rock Crusher' at Northwestern University. A monster machine cleverly hidden in an ivy covered school building.

    Bolt quality is a big deal. The weakest link...

  5. #15

    Re: Disturbing copies

    Take a look through eBay for "as Kino Flo" or "as Arri" lighting. Its pretty amazing that there are direct copies of these lights including the names. Evidently Kino and Arri have not pursued (or have not be successful in their pursuit) getting eBay to cancel these. Oddly, they aren't much cheaper. Then again, I can't imagine that there are too many professional grips who would show up to a shoot with knock off products.

  6. #16

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    May 2007
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    Greenwood Lake NY USA
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    Re: Disturbing copies

    I have two concerns: quality of fabrication and availability of after-sales-service. Depending on the item in question I sometimes chose an original and sometimes chose a knock-off, I don't concern myself with moral issues in this matter.

  7. #17
    Jac@stafford.net's Avatar
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    Re: Disturbing copies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted R View Post
    [...] I don't concern myself with moral issues in this matter.
    If there is a lapsed patent, I still prefer to put my money into the inventor's hand, if he's living. I'm rather sensitive to this because a relative was a hard working inventor. I've seen the struggles.

    ...and I do not concern myself with others' morals in this regard. We are good.

  8. #18
    Corran's Avatar
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    Re: Disturbing copies

    1:1 copies usually mean that the item in question is being made in China already, and some production capacity is getting made and sold with a different name stamped on it.

    This is a pretty well-known thing and is symptomatic of manufacturing being sent to China. The Chinese have different patent laws and different cultural beliefs in this area. If a manufacturer doesn't want an item knocked-off like that, they simply shouldn't have manufacturing done in China. If they can't afford to make it elsewhere and hit an appropriate price-point or profit margin...well too bad, such is life in that space.

    Items with very similar form/function may be modified or inspired from the original product, but still be its own thing. Every tripod/head is basically the same core principle anyway - how much of a design is patentable and proprietary? What patents are actually held? Before being overly critical I think this is important to consider. Also I have no experience with Ries so I have no idea about similarities here.

    Our patent and copyright laws in the USA are pretty messy IMO and could do with some careful retooling, especially copyright of intellectual property.
    Bryan | Blog | YouTube | Instagram
    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

  9. #19
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Disturbing copies

    I've used American made Tiltall tripods labeled as three different brands for the past 57 years, and found no significant difference in performance. The fairly recent attempt to import similar tripods under the Tiltall brand seems less successful to those who have tried them. We shouldn't blame the countries of origin for such unfortunate products. It is the American corporate buyer and distributor of such things that creates the market for them, and the American bargain shopper who supports that market.

  10. #20

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    Re: Disturbing copies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Jones View Post
    I've used American made Tiltall tripods labeled as three different brands for the past 57 years, and found no significant difference in performance. The fairly recent attempt to import similar tripods under the Tiltall brand seems less successful to those who have tried them. We shouldn't blame the countries of origin for such unfortunate products. It is the American corporate buyer and distributor of such things that creates the market for them, and the American bargain shopper who supports that market.
    It seems to be a race to the bottom.

    Consumers buy almost exclusively on price, so manufacturers must make items as cheap as possible
    ---or---
    Manufacturers make items as cheap as possible, so consumers might as well buy based on price

    What came first, the chicken or the egg?

    I have no sympathy for "brand name" manufacturers who commoditize their product:
    • no pre or post sale support, online or otherwise
    • no parts or repair availabiity
    • crappy warranty


    Their mantra is outsource, outsource, outsource.

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