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Thread: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

  1. #1

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    Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    Hello. I have a question about shutter speed sequence. I've noticed that most pre-war and immediate post-war shutters, and light meters, had the following speed sequence:

    1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200, 1/400

    Of course, the "modern" sequence is:

    1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, etc.

    I've been thinking about this recently, in relation to film ISO speed. It appears to me that film speed still largely mirrors the "old" shutter speed sequence. Seems odd that Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, and others wouldn't have updated ISO, over the years, to line up with the newer shutter speeds.

    I'm curious if anyone knows the history of the change in speeds and when that happened within the shutter industry. Thanks in advance.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Jac@stafford.net's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    It is not just shutter speeds (duration). Exposure ratings on meters changed sometime during the introduction of color film. If you can place a lot of Weston meters side-by-side it is clear.

  3. #3
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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    It's an interesting topic.. My 1949-1950-ish Rolleiflex has a mix.. 25/50/100/250/500. I just round 250 to 200 especially when it's cold and 500 to 400. I'm shooting negative film so it's not too critical.

    I wouldn't tie film speed too closely with the old speeds. We had films like Kodachrome 25 & 64, Pan X film at 32 , FP4+ at 125. It's been a mix.

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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    Thanks for the responses. My Rolleiflex was manufactured in 1954, based on SN, and has the complete "modern" sequence. The Norwood meter shown in the initial post is a Model B, manufactured between 1948 and '51, has the "old" sequence, so whatever prompted the change occurred in the early '50s.

    At this point, the question is primarily one of curiosity, as to what prompted the sequence change. My suspicion is that it had to do with the creation of the ISO at the end of the war and a desire to harmonize standards worldwide, and that it took a decade or so to develop and ratify the standard, and for the industry to adopt it. Looking at Leica, the M3 (1954) has the mixed sequence like jp's Rollei, and the M2 (1957) has the modern sequence.

  5. #5
    8x10, 5x7, 4x5, et al Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    The correct power-of-2 sequence is (and always has been):
    1
    1/2
    1/4
    1/8
    1/16
    1/32
    1/64
    1/128
    1/256
    1/512
    1/1024

    If you choose to start from 1/1000 as the fastest speed, you get:
    1/1000
    1/500
    1/250
    1/125
    1/62.5
    1/31.25
    1/15.625
    1/7.8125
    1/3.90625
    1/1.953125
    1/0.9765625

    Obviously, speeds slower than 1/125 are unusable as engraved values.

    You can see how the sequences were derived by combining the two series.

    - Leigh
    If you believe you can, or you believe you can't... you're right.

  6. #6
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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    The transition happened more slowly in large format lenses, presumably because everyone was using the same limited range of shutters. Calumet was still selling house-brand lenses in Ilex shutters with the old sequence into the 1970s, well after Copal and Compur shutters had become available with the new sequence. Compound shutters with the old sequence were offered new at least into the 1960s.

    Of course, focal plane curtain shutters in cameras like the Graflex and the Speed Graphic lived in an entirely different world, with a matrix of speeds arising from the independent adjustment of opening and tension.

  7. #7
    multiplex
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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    it probably has to do with
    when all the old fstop systems
    were squeezed into one uniformly
    accepted/adapted system, or ... maybe not.

    ive had ( and still have ) lenses
    where reality has nothing to do the numbers
    they seem to be just what whoever made the lens
    decided to put there to mess with people who might
    have bought / used / found &c the lens years later.
    so i guess fstops like shutter speeds values are just a state of mind,
    not a real concrete value. that's one of the reasons i never CLA any of my shutters.
    "ceci n'est pas une pipe"

  8. #8
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    Perhaps when the EVS system was popularized. For that system to work, the f-stop and shutter speed click intervals need to alter the exposure by the same amount across the scale. So, if one second is in the mix, the shutter scale will deviate by one-third of a stop by the time it gets to 1/100, 1/200, 1/400 etc. So those need to be changed to 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, etc. to use the EVS system.

  9. #9

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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlJam View Post

    I've been thinking about this recently, in relation to film ISO speed. It appears to me that film speed still largely mirrors the "old" shutter speed sequence. Seems odd that Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, and others wouldn't have updated ISO, over the years, to line up with the newer shutter speeds.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Norwood_Dial.jpg 
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ID:	172171

    It seems to me that both film and camera makers adopted the modern step sequence for exposure increments years ago. The basic increment is one third of a stop and this is frequently used for aperture scales, shutter speeds and film speeds on professional equipment, including digital cameras.

  10. #10

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    Re: Shutter speed sequence: when did it change?

    If Leica counts, I believe the 1954 M3 used 1/25th, etc, and the 1956 version of the same camera switched to 1/30, etc.
    Thanks, but I'd rather just watch:
    Large format: http://flickr.com/michaeldarnton
    Mostly 35mm: http://flickr.com/mdarnton
    You want digital, color, etc?: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stradofear

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