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Thread: Contact printing question

  1. #31
    New Orleans, LA
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    Re: Contact printing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    OK, but... What's the difference from FB chlorobromide papers? beyond speed...

    Sure it is not about resolving power, bare RC papers have better detail than FB, but this can only be observed with a very powerful magnifier, I measured +30 Lp/mm on RC (USAF 1951 glass slide contact copy)

    Warmness can be adjusted... so no deal.


    Tonality? is this about toe and shoulder shapes ? But this is not related to chloride, but to emulsion formulation...

    Is perhaps because results with toning or split toning ?

    I've heard about many pople, like you, that are amazed with AZO paper (Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee..), and even I've seen great prints, but still I don't understand the technical difference...
    You'd have to talk to a photo engineer about the technical differences. I would think it must be within the formulation of the emulsion and how that responds to light and subsequent development. The blacks are richer, the gradations from one tone to the next are subtle and real.

  2. #32

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    Re: Contact printing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    OK, but... What's the difference from FB chlorobromide papers? beyond speed...

    I've heard about many pople, like you, that are amazed with AZO paper (Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee..), and even I've seen great prints, but still I don't understand the technical difference...
    Not meaning to be flip, but I don't care. It just looks better, and that's enough for me.
    Bruce Barlow
    author of "Finely Focused" and "Exercises in Photographic Composition"
    www.brucewbarlow.com

  3. #33

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    Re: Contact printing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Bennett View Post
    You'd have to talk to a photo engineer about the technical differences. I would think it must be within the formulation of the emulsion and how that responds to light and subsequent development. The blacks are richer, the gradations from one tone to the next are subtle and real.
    I've just been reading this: http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/azoamidol.html


    Smith says: "Besides having an extremely long scale, Azo has particularly rich blacks. And recent tests I have conducted show that when compared to enlarging papers it has more contrast in the midtones, giving the prints a glowing richness and greater depth."

    I don't understand the "extremly long scale" concept, to me a paper can go from barita white to 1.0D black, slightly more if tonned.

    The concept I understand is "rich blacks", this would a be long shoulder that is able to compress easily shadows there, giving more room for midtones for the final grade. Also it looks it has a long toe for on paper highlights.

    IMHO this could also be achieved with any paper with the proper technique of tonal management, for example with the Alan Ross way that I'm learning now: http://phototechmag.com/selective-ma...onal-darkroom/


    But I agree that having a paper with long toe/shoulder may facilitate a lot a "fine print" look, perhaps it saves the need to use tricky techniques to obtain a desired look from a more linear capture....

    I guess it should be worth to try it.

  4. #34
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Contact printing question

    I like matt paper , not so in need of deep rich blacks but I do like low tones to have nice separation. But nice separation may be the defining detail in Rich Blacks.

  5. #35

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    Re: Contact printing question

    Well, matt paper is also more consistent when seen under not ideal illumination...

  6. #36

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    Re: Contact printing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Barlow View Post
    Not meaning to be flip, but I don't care. It just looks better, and that's enough for me.
    This is always an strong criterion

  7. #37

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    Re: Contact printing question

    http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blo...hite-printing/

    Take a look at this interview of Kim Weston on B&W photography. You can see Edward Weston's darkroom in the video. Simple, to the point and set up for his workflow.

    Some things you will do are the same as most others do. Some you may do a bit differently. As long as it works for you and the final result is high quality and looks the way you want it to - you will probably be happy with the whole process.
    ” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”.

  8. #38

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    Re: Contact printing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    "... And recent tests I have conducted show that when compared to enlarging papers it has more contrast in the midtones, giving the prints a glowing richness and greater depth."
    Pure (or near pure) AgCl papers seem to give much greater 'linearity' of response to my eye compared to the toe and shoulder characteristics of enlarging papers etc. Relative to regular papers they seem to give a punchier midrange whilst holding more in both shadows & highlights than you would expect a regular AgClBrI enlarging paper to do at a perceptually equivalent midrange contrast. Have had better things to do with my life than test this with step wedges, but they obviously have significantly different toe & shoulder characteristics vis-a-vis enlarging papers. This has a lot to do with the fundamental curve shape that AgCl creates - consider that current chromogenic papers are almost pure AgCl emulsions (with iodide etc for speed & some much more sophisticated emulsion making processes) - there has to be a very good reason for this! If you want to try a chloride paper I'd suggest the 5-sheet taster pack of Adox Lupex from Fotoimpex & some Neutol WA. For what it's worth, I like the look of chloride papers enough to make enlarged negs specifically for printing on them - I just wish a 112/5k matte finish was available too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    IMHO this could also be achieved with any paper with the proper technique of tonal management, for example with the Alan Ross way that I'm learning now
    Not really - you cannot make Fomatone & Ilford MG Cooltone FB look identical (for example), but you can make the same negative print equally well on both. Most of the time it isn't hard at all.

  9. #39
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Contact printing question

    I am now making enlarged silver negatives, bought a few boxes that set me back quite a bit..... Michael Smith sent me some paper (Lodima) and I am going to balance my negatives to his paper. I have already got a decent balance for Ilford Warmtone, Pt Pd and Gum..

    I am very curious to see with my own eyes how Lodima looks with negatives that I control from start to finish..I will be contacting him shortly for the right chemical recommendation and I will purchase more from him.

    Personally after looking at a lot of prints by myself and others quality can be obtained with any paper you set you mind too. No magic bullet here.

  10. #40

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    Re: Contact printing question

    I'll also (simply) add that the slower the paper, the finer the silver grains, so these will build up density differently than "fast" papers...

    I suspect that modern paper emulsions are a combination of emulsions, like films are today (beyond just MG two emulsions), but if you see prints from each decade, you will see a different look (and printing style that may be influenced by the period materials)... As papers were mostly intended for the pro market, I think that the mfgs assumed that the pros were intrenched in the "time is money" mentality, so paper speed went up for production uses... (And for intended purposes, such as a bright, punchy look for news reproduction, head shots, photofinishing, etc...) In the 60's on, hard/contrasty was the norm, and even in the 20's, A. Steiglitz was fuming about Kodak "ruining" the scale of his favorite paper as they increased it's speed, and so on...

    So different papers need to be tested (cold tone papers tend to be fast and build up contrast easily, warm tone has a longer scale, but tends to be slower/flatter and builds Dmax slower with it's finer paper "grain", and contact papers very slow but with a fuller scale (contact papers were commonly used with contact printer boxes that had very bright light sources close to the diffusers that allowed for shortish exposures often for portrait lab proof and retouchable LF contact printing) but could have a wonderful scale... So take your pick...

    Give the types a try, but expect very short exposures with the modern paper types...

    Steve K

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