Curly Prints.

[Enrique Vila]

I've been working with B&W 4x5 for a number of years, but just recently did my first incursion on printing bigger that 8x10 (at the moment i'm trying 16x20).

What I've found, besides 16x20 being a completely different kind of animal, is that once the print is complete and dryed, the amount of curl it gets is simply horrible, making my prints almost unmountable in a recular cornered mat.

Is dry mount my only option? or is the anything else I could do? I would like to avoid buying a dry mount press and/or any other equipment if at all possible.

Hope someone can give me some light on this...

Enrique.-
Melbourne, Australia
http://www.vilaphoto.tk

[Joe Egge]

Enrique - Try using 1/3 the recommended amount of hardener in your fix. You will retain adequate protection against surface scratches, and the prints will not curl. Of course, this requires using a nonhardening fix that allows you to add the hardener. I use Ilford's nonhardening Hypam fix with Hypam hardener added at 1/3 the suggested amount.

Joe

[domenico Foschi]

I wouldn't use hardener at all, especially because I tone a lot.
The surface of MGIV has never given me any trouble , the MGIV warm rarely, in situations of extreme carelessness.
Once the prints are dried, press them with a heavy sheet of metal or something that can distribute the weight uniformly and let it "cure for two days. You won't have the problem anymore.

[John Cook]

Having been forced to work exclusively with RC for the last 30 years for commercial reasons, I am now in the process of getting back into fiber printing for my retirement. So I, too, am experimenting with this very issue.

Papers, like everything else, have probably changed since the 1960's. But my early experience with fiber paper and hardener was that it had to be just right. Too little hardener and the print surface became soft and tacky. Prints would stick to blotters and dryer aprons and become “flocked” when peeled off. Placed under weights to flatten, they would stick to each other. I once spent all night printing for a final print critique in art school, only to find I had a 2-inch solid “brick” of bonded prints under the lead weights.

On the other hand, too much hardener or too much time in a hardening fixer can make print emulsions brittle, like the crazed glaze on antique pottery. I have seen even over-hardened 5x7 matte portraits crack under a drymount press.

So be cautious about getting too creative with the print hardener.

The second tidbit I have learned is that paper expands as it gets wet and shrinks as it dries. If the print is unevenly wet, it will dry unevenly. This is what (in addition to emulsion-induced edge curling) causes ripples and scallops. So get some clean white motel towels and meticulously dry the print before leaving it to dry. A sponge or squeegie is not sufficient. Especially on one of those Arkay flat bed heated dryers. Even one drop of water or fingerprints from wet hands can create problems.

Another option which will probably upset the archival crowd is to bathe the print in something to help it dry more evenly. Ilford (I think) recommends a bath of wetting agent for this purpose. Years ago, when we ferrotyped single weight prints on a gas-fired drum dryer, we used a similar solution from Pako called Print Flattening Solution. Hard to find, but still manufactured.

Lastly, I recently ran across an obscure website which recommends drying fiber prints by hanging from spring clips under tension. The method is to suspend the print from the top corners with Pony spring clamps. Then add the weight of two more clamps at the bottom corners. Sounds like it might work, if combined with some of the above ideas.

I am going to try to build a wooden frame with miniature clamps attached to each corner with common rubber bands. This should provide adjustable tension. The plastic (non-rusting?) mini-clamps I have chosen are these:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41712&cat=1,43838

[George Hart]

Enrique, getting flat fibre-based prints is very easy when you use a technique borrowed from watercolour painters. I give a final brief wash in Ilford's wetting solution (more dilute than they recommend), then lay the print face-up on a piece of thick glass. Fix the print to the glass using half-inch masking tape all round. Remove after 24 hours, and you have a perfectly flat print!

[KenM]

I've found that if I only squeegee the emulsion side of the print (leaving the back alone), my prints dry practically flat with only a bit of ripple. It's extremely dry here in Calgary (as long as you ignore last June where we received close to 300mm of rain), and I suspect that keeping the back of the print damp slows down the drying process just enough to compensate for any uneven contraction.

John: we have a Lee Valley in Calgary. It's a dangerous place to go with a bank card :-)

[lee\c]

My process is that I squeegee the fiber print on both sides. I use a glass surface for this. I then place the freshly squeegeed print on a frame with fiberglass screening attached. The print is placed face down and allowed to stay there a minimum of 12 hours. The print might have a slight curl toward the emultion. Then the print is placed in a drymount press and allowed to stay there for about a minute at 180F. The print is then placed on my desk face down and allowed to cool. This has been my process for about 25 years. It will yeild very flat prints. Also, the slower you can dry the prints the less curl the print will have.

leec

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I live in Colorado and the humidity is very low, which also tends to make prints curl more. I do what others have suggested, use no hardner in your fix, wash well, lightly squeege both sides, lay face down on fiberglass screens (I use two sceens for each as this helps with curl in my area), when dry- press it in a dry mount press for a minute and then cool face down under a weight. That will give you a flat print ( at least as flat as one will get). There are chemical products that are supposed to help with this issue, but I have never used them and I know a few well known photographers who will say to avoid them.

With large prints, it is more difficult that with small. In terms of mounting your print and not wanting to purchase a dry mount press, well I think it all depends on how much ripple you are willing to live with. Large prints that are corner mounted on a mat board with a window mat covering will almost always have some ripple, it just depends on to what degree you are willing to live with.

There have been other email strings recently about the merits or dry mounting or not, that is a personal choice. But remember, there are trade offs with each that you need to weigh.

[John Cook]

Since I am the last person alive who has ever done wet mounting, and since no one east of the Mississippi has even a remote hint of interest, I will not do my usual hundred words on the subject.

But you have to admit, it is quick, easy, and totally eliminates the two major bugaboos of curly fiber prints and expensive, difficult to store drymount presses.

And archival pastes are available...

[Eric Biggerstaff]

John,

Teach us! I have never done the process and would like to know.