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Thread: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

  1. #1
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    Question Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    I recently bought a secondhand X-Rite 361T densitometer including the original calibration strip. I am now looking for a transmission density standard, like the Stouffer TP4x5-31 for film testing and some other experiments I want to run. I can buy one directly from Stouffer for 68.50 USD + 10 USD for standard USPS shipping. They do, however, take no responsibility for the parcel actually arriving here in the Netherlands. If there is a European seller, I'd be inclined to buy from them instead because of this. So far, I only found Asmetec, but their prices are twice of that of buying from Stouffer directly.

    Does any of you know of a seller I might have missed? Or do you know a good alternative from another brand that is similarly priced?

    Roy

  2. #2

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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    I've bought several times from Stouffer. The corresponding letter arrived in due time. I'm in Barcelona.
    Best,
    Pau

    Some pictures in Flickr.

  3. #3
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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    Well that is at least not discouraging to order from Stouffer directly.

  4. #4

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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe


  5. #5
    Huub
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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    Here another good experience from Stouffer here, The parcel arrived about a week after ordering.

    Be aware that in addition tot the shipping costs you will need to pay VAT - which is 21% in The Netherlands - and the postal company will charge an additional € 17.50 for handling the package.

  6. #6

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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by RocketScientist90 View Post
    I recently bought a secondhand X-Rite 361T densitometer including the original calibration strip. I am now looking for a transmission density standard, like the Stouffer TP4x5-31 for film testing and some other experiments I want to run. I can buy one directly from Stouffer for 68.50 USD + 10 USD for standard USPS shipping. They do, however, take no responsibility for the parcel actually arriving here in the Netherlands. If there is a European seller, I'd be inclined to buy from them instead because of this. So far, I only found Asmetec, but their prices are twice of that of buying from Stouffer directly.

    Does any of you know of a seller I might have missed? Or do you know a good alternative from another brand that is similarly priced?

    Roy
    I bought the stouffer #T2115 - 21 at Fotoimpex, if you also buy some film shipping cost is atenuated... and shipping is registered and fast. IIRC they don't serve the 45 size.

    https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/system...che=1504277294

    I prefer that #T2115 size, rather than the 45 size. It is perfect for film calibrations and I also scan it alongsize with a sheet, so I've a a precise reference for the densities in the sheet.

    You can also buy an IT8.7/1 transparent calibration target ( Note IT8.7/2 is a reflective target), it has color and bw scales. You can find used ones at Ebay. (As you already have a calibrated strip...)


    The #T2115 is more suitable for film calibrations, you cut film strips for that, saving money...

    The "TP" of TP4x5-31 stands for "Transmission Projection", it is intended to be projected with a 4x5 enlarger to "establish exposure and processing adjustments and to determine the speed and contrast of photographic papers", they say.

    For film calibration 1/2 steps are more desired. For paper measurements perhaps 1/3 steps may be desired. DMax it is the same (3.05D) in both cases, 31 steps and 21 steps.

    Regards

  7. #7
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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    Thanks, will check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Huub View Post
    Here another good experience from Stouffer here, The parcel arrived about a week after ordering.

    Be aware that in addition tot the shipping costs you will need to pay VAT - which is 21% in The Netherlands - and the postal company will charge an additional € 17.50 for handling the package.
    I was aware of the VAT, but not of the 17.50 handling fee.. Thanks for the heads up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    I bought the stouffer #T2115 - 21 at Fotoimpex, if you also buy some film shipping cost is atenuated... and shipping is registered and fast. IIRC they don't serve the 45 size.

    https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/system...che=1504277294

    I prefer that #T2115 size, rather than the 45 size. It is perfect for film calibrations and I also scan it alongsize with a sheet, so I've a a precise reference for the densities in the sheet.

    You can also buy an IT8.7/1 transparent calibration target ( Note IT8.7/2 is a reflective target), it has color and bw scales. You can find used ones at Ebay. (As you already have a calibrated strip...)


    The #T2115 is more suitable for film calibrations, you cut film strips for that, saving money...

    The "TP" of TP4x5-31 stands for "Transmission Projection", it is intended to be projected with a 4x5 enlarger to "establish exposure and processing adjustments and to determine the speed and contrast of photographic papers", they say.

    For film calibration 1/2 steps are more desired. For paper measurements perhaps 1/3 steps may be desired. DMax it is the same (3.05D) in both cases, 31 steps and 21 steps.

    Regards
    Thanks for the suggestions. How do you use the T2115 then? I was thinking of photographing the TP4x5 on a lightbox at 1:1 magnification. Could of course to the same with the T2115, and then mask of the rest to avoid excessive flare.
    I got on the track of the TP4x5 via Beyond Monochrome, in which the use of the TP4x5 is suggested.

    Roy

  8. #8

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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by RocketScientist90 View Post
    Thanks, will check it out!


    I was aware of the VAT, but not of the 17.50 handling fee.. Thanks for the heads up!


    Thanks for the suggestions. How do you use the T2115 then? I was thinking of photographing the TP4x5 on a lightbox at 1:1 magnification. Could of course to the same with the T2115, and then mask of the rest to avoid excessive flare.
    I got on the track of the TP4x5 via Beyond Monochrome, in which the use of the TP4x5 is suggested.

    Roy
    First I recommend you to get (6€ used) BTZS book, "Beyond the Zone System". It may be a great source of satisfaction for somebody like you showing tech interest for the things.

    A common way to calibrate film:

    Scale #T2115 - 21 Step is (1/2 Inch X 5 Inch) , so cut 8 strips of 1/2" wide, perpendicular to the 4" short side. You can make 8 tests with a single 45 sheet.


    Then make contact copies under a light source (enlarger, or a lamp).

    Exposure time (lamp electronically activated) should be around 1s, longer exposures may show reciprocity failure. Shorter exposures may have precision problems.

    One interesting piece of gear you may want is a lux meter, to measure the light intensity falling on film through the Stouffer. Pick one with 0.1 Lux capability (15€ or so...). So you'll have a very technical graph showing Lux·Second vs Density, for each development time/agitation.


    Then develop say 4 strips (equally exposed) with different developing times. You will have a familly of 4 sensitometric curves by spending half a sheet.



    Later you can match the Lux reading vs camera exposure. This is quite easy: With view camera just point to a grey wall and measure with luxmeter the light amount that arrives to the camera back (remove the Ground Glass for it), and also take the exposure in the "grey wall" with your exposure meter (or DSLR). Then you have the relationship.

    You can also use a luxmeter App for the samartphone, using the front sensor for screen autobright, it is a good instrument but it gives a very directional reading that has to be calibrated and used properly. You need anyway the luxometer to calibrate it.


    This is my "high end" kit:




    Really cheap, the surplus Nuclear Associates RX densitometer is very, very accurate and was near for free, including a calibrated target !!!

    Regards

  9. #9
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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    Interesting procedure. I ordered the book and will report back with my results.

    Roy

  10. #10

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    Re: Transmission density wedge/tablet in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by RocketScientist90 View Post
    Interesting procedure. I ordered the book and will report back with my results.

    Roy
    As you'll see... first half is about sensitometry, everything important about calibrating film and paper is there. Second half, mostly, is about metering strategies, a practical view... I consider nmportant understanding very well first part.

    I hope you'll find it useful and interesting

    Regards

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