I own a wisner 8x10 and am very happy with it. I've been considering getting a 7x17 but have decided to consider the 8x20 as well.
If you own either of these cameras, how do you like them? Pros and cons. I'm slightly concerned that the 7x17 is build around the 5x7 body. Is this frame a bit light/thin for a camera of this size?
-Rob
Rob, you might try contacting Kerik Kouklis - if I recall correctly, his 7x17 is a Wisner:
www.kerik.com/email.htm
I own a Wisner 7x17. I didn't buy it directly from Ron Wisner but got it from Fred Newman at the View Camera Store. Before I bought it Fred told me that it was one of the nicest Wisners he had ever seen. I've seen a few of Wisner's cameras myself, and sure enough, this one was a real winner. I've never had any problem with it at all. Of course I tighten everything up once in a while. I also own an Ebony 4x5 and an old Deardorff 8x10. The Wisner definately holds its own. It isn't an Ebony but it costs less than my SV45U and weighs less than the Deardorff. Ron Wisner is certainly capable of building a really good camera. I wish he would do that consistently.
One more thing, Rob. The lighter frame that Wisner uses for the 7x17 is sufficient. The camera isn't as solid as a 4x5 Ebony or Linhof, but I don't expect it to be. Wobble and vibration aren't any problem at all. When you get into ULF cameras there have to be compromises or you will be carrying around a 75 lb ultra-solid, ultra-stable beast.
I use a Wisner 7x17 (that's mine you see on Brian's site btw). I bought it because at the time it was significantly cheaper than what was available new from other manufacturers. When I was researching it I also considered the 8x20. I went for the 7x17 for the very fact that it *is* built on a 5x7 base - makes for a more compact and lighter package compared to the 8x20. Also as you go up in size the choice of lenses that will cover become few and far between. The 8x20 neg is nice but my darkroom space is limited and I could not accommodate the larger trays, etc needed to work with 8x20 (both in processing negs and in making prints)
Rob, I recently had Ron build me an 8x20 Expedition. This is an all cherry constructed camera. It is a fantastic camera. Mine has the new black sheepskin bellows and I must say this bellows blows away my older wisner 8x10 pocket expedition's red kids bellows. One of the nicest bellows I've seen. The bellows is 40" but the wisner has a double front bed that will give you 50" of rail stretched out in case for some odd reason you would need or want a bellows extension, Ron informs me my bellows was the one used for the picture on the Wisner web sight. This camera has all the movements of an expedition and the real surprise is it weighs only 14.5 lb. Now I have been shooting the 8x20 in the vertical format a lot so I had Ron build me a vertical back for this camera also. Here is where I learned a lot. The difference in size from portrait to landscape is greater in 8x20 than in any other format..... (12") ...This camera is built on an 8x10 bed with an 8x10 front standard to allow it to fold up into the transport position. When you change backs the small 8x10 front standard will not allow enough rise to get to the sweet spot in the center of the GG. Even with a radical bed tilt it still won't reach. After mulling over with Ron a solution that included a slick telescoping front standard that I was afraid would never materialize, I had Ron build me another front bed with the vertical rails from a 16x20 standard. This gives me more than enough rise with plenty of movement. When I change backs it only takes an extra 30 sec. to roll one front standard off and the other one on. I just have to carry an extra front standard with the extra back. Why not just use the one longer standard? Because when in the horizontal position the longer rails will not allow you to fold up into the transport position and I don't want to have to change back to the vertical format just to fold the camera up to transport it. When you carry an extra back trust me it's nothing to carry an extra standard with it. Now by no means am I suggesting you carry this all this around with you although at 14.5 lb it is possible to back pack this thing.( take two packs and a young strong photo asst.) Or you would just be limited to the format you have it set up for or turn it on it's side. ( I just have nightmares of the rails ripping out of the guides by doing this ) Plus you're movements are all entirely different by turning it on it's side. All in all I love this camera, it is beautiful and a joy to use. Ron Wisner can build a great camera. He may need a little work on his business practices but he'll be the first to admit that and at this moment in time I think that is exactly what he is doing, working on improving scheduling and service. If you are willing to put up with these kind of problems along with all the others that go along with shooting ULF than by all means go for it . You'll never look back. At least I haven't....Best of luck, Robert
My Wisner 7x17 is by far my most used and fave camera. It is small and light and provides a big neg and has been modified to take S&S holders and with two small metal brackets added for extra support in vertical use on the Ries. This was something Ron and I discussed as I needed to do a lot of verticals and the camera is rock solid now as can be. I did this to my 12x20 also. This 7x17 is a small ULF gem and if you are in the market a Wisner it is certainly worth considering. If you need extra beef in a camera get the 8x20 which has a longer bellows and you could also get a 7x17 reducing back for it if necessary. It took awhile to get my 7x17 exactly as I wanted it but Ron was more than happy to help out in all my needs as they developed. If you have any more questions please feel free to e-mail me. You may not know this yet but the Wisner Company has changed location. They are still in the same town but streamlinig the biz and things should be running much more efficiently in the near future. A new building is being built as we speak. Also...I'm waiting on a new Wisner 7x17 to be delivered (I'm a Wisner dealer) if you are interested. Cheers, Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com.
Emile, Alan Brubaker makes film holders to fit any Wisner, without any modifications being done to the camera. These are probably the best film holders on the market ( at least in my opinion). Ebony has contracted Alan to build the film holders for their new 20x24 cameras if that is any indication of the quality of work he does. Also Kieth Canham is building his ULF camera backs around the AWB filmholder specs. So instead of having to modify the camera you can have some of the best filmholders in the world made to your camera specs. Just another option to consider. I figure if I'm going to spend 6 grand on a camera I'll spend the extra couple of bucks for filmholders to fit it. Plus AWB holders are second to none in terms of quality.
I'll spend the extra couple of bucks for filmholders to fit it.
Kind of an understatement, no? The AWB holders are a tiny bit more than a couple of dollars :-) ....but I agree they seem to be the best on the market.
So Robert, tell me how much is an Ebony 20x24?...$40,000? Have thay actually sold any of these cameras? 2 years ago out of curiosity I e-mailed them and asked them how much was a 12x20....$20,000....LOL.... For that price the damn thing better come with a car to transport it... :-)
To tell you the truth Jorge I figured if I had to ask I can't afford it. But in talking with Alan I think he said around 24,000 for a 20x24. but don't quote on that I'm not sure. I know they are in production now but I don't know of anyone that has taken delivery on one. I agree, I think the Ebony 20x24 should at least come with a beautiful Geisha at those prices..
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