Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: How to handle "Free on Loan" threads, etc.

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    5,242

    Re: Comments on "Free on Loan - brass lenses" thread in For Sale/For Trade section

    I accepted, without comment, the change in the F/S and Wanted thread. The moderator's were unhappy about the need for frequent interventions and listers that were p****d off with any additional information that might reduce the commercial value of item(s).

    Like others here, I feel that a good facility for information spreading has been lost. I do occasionally send PMs to listers and the contents do reach the advert in most cases.

    I cannot see why this thread has been moved to feedback, as my original idea was a use of the existing system, not a reversal to an older system. If this is the way the mods want to go, then OK.

    But please change the title of the thread. No one will guess that the present content of this thread "The sterile/boring F/S thread" as it stands now.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Arlington, Mass.
    Posts
    121

    Re: Comments on "Free on Loan - brass lenses" thread in For Sale/For Trade section

    Just wanted to add my sense of it, while feedback is being considered: removing the behaviors that sometimes caused complaints and gaming of the system seems to me to have reduced the overall utility of the forum. I completely understand why the action was taken; if I were a moderator, I'd probably have been tempted to do it as well, if only to quiet the louder complainers. But it feels a bit like we destroyed the village to save it, to use an unfortunate metaphor (not enough caffeine yet this morning to think of a better one).

    I don't know the right answer -- I don't wish the burden on the moderators to increase. But I think the old FS free for all, such as it was, was a much more vibrant and useful part of the community than it might have got credit for. I don't tend to sell, really only do shopping and learning, so the old way was better for me personally. And I hold no brief for the folks who show up once every couple of weeks with 50 things they've gleaned from garage sales or whatever. But it seems to me that there is a small number of folks who are somewhat cranky by nature and complain loudly about the things they don't like. That's OK, it's their right, I suppose, in a community-run forum like this one. But it seems unfortunate to let things be determined by the loudest and crankiest of the group, simply by dint of sheer continued annoyance of the volunteer moderators, which is what it feels like happened here.

    I guess I could wish that we returned to the old set up, with the loud warning at the top saying, essentially, "You participate here understanding that people will comment, and others will play bumping games. Don't bother complaining about anything short of fraud. Most policing via the Buyer-Seller Advisory forum. Have fun." but perhaps that's naive.

    Robert

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,406

    Re: Comments on "Free on Loan - brass lenses" thread in For Sale/For Trade section

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Brazile View Post
    But it seems unfortunate to let things be determined by the loudest and crankiest of the group, simply by dint of sheer continued annoyance of the volunteer moderators, which is what it feels like happened here.

    I guess I could wish that we returned to the old set up, with the loud warning at the top saying, essentially, "You participate here understanding that people will comment, and others will play bumping games. Don't bother complaining about anything short of fraud. Most policing via the Buyer-Seller Advisory forum. Have fun." but perhaps that's naive.

    Robert
    I completely agree with most of what's been said about the buy/sell listings, but especially this, above.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,164

    Re: Comments on "Free on Loan - brass lenses" thread in For Sale/For Trade section

    Another issue is the mere optics of the sales area. Historically buying and selling was seen as an extension of community. Now open the forum and look at community. Over half of the Community section is filled with the FS, WTB and Advisories, and those area are themselves filled with ugly red text screaming at you. Is that really how the LF forum should advertise itself?

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.
    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...nTransfer/info

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    3,850

    Re: How to handle "Free on Loan" threads, etc.

    When I heard about potential changes a year ago, I gave recommendations about how to improve the For Sale section. As most of us did. What we ended up with was quite different.

    From 2007 to the change I bought and sold dozens of lenses and cameras here, sometimes a couple a month. For years. In the last year myself, and a lot of those "ambitious hobbiests" have moved on. I haven't looked at or sold more than 1-2 items this year, here. Trade is good for the hobby, and it was photographers buying and selling to other photographers.

    The main problem, from a users perspective were the true dealers, that were selling dozens of items a week. Some very cheap accessories like trays, boards, shutter cables. Some more expensive items from the dealers Inventory (capital "I"). But those filtered the "good stuff" down off the list very quickly. There were several dealers that NEVER had a post in anything except the For Sale section. How is that "a community?" It's not, it's a Market. Even today, right NOW, I just looked at the For Sale section, and it's the same. Several sellers are there.....only....to....sell. No (or scant "tell me about this so I can sell it) other posts outside For Sale. Many other dealers just became members to swoop in and buy any good deal. You'll also see their post count at or near 0. Just here to deal.

    And some were finding creative ways to Bump their items to the top every day or two. The big problem wasn't hobbiests that traded and sold. It was dealers that had an inventory of thousands of items, looking for an outlet to sell. That wasn't really addressed, but was swept under the rug. And I don't mind someone that wheels and deals quite a bit, to work on their collection. I do mind someone selling 47 small accessories, digital stuff, and the like for less than $30/piece. Because, again, it pushes the important items off the page, to be missed.

    I think some of the new rules tried to address the above.

    What I would do now, on retrospect, is make 3 sections for sale:
    1. LF Lenses for sale
    2. LF Cameras for sale
    3. Accessories / film / Small Format
    That way, people that wanted "the good stuff", can concentrate where it is. Like it used to be. Drop most of the rules and restrictions.

  6. #16
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    6,302

    Re: Comments on "Free on Loan - brass lenses" thread in For Sale/For Trade section

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Tribe View Post
    I cannot see why this thread has been moved to feedback, as my original idea was a use of the existing system, not a reversal to an older system.
    For the reason stated when I moved it. The thread departed from your intended purpose virtually from the start. Changing the title is a good idea, and I've done that - hope it will clear up any ambiguity.

    Whether it's a good idea to invite comment threads parallel to a posting in one of the more restricted subforums is not clear. If not, how best to handle loan offers? We're thinking about that.

  7. #17
    jp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    4,491

    Re: How to handle "Free on Loan" threads, etc.

    I like Garrett's ideas. Equipment changing hands makes LF more educational for everyone.

    I wasn't much bothered by the comments on FS/WTB posts. If mods are worried about good items being pushed off the page, make the page longer; probably a software default setting.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Rondo, Missouri
    Posts
    1,929

    Re: How to handle "Free on Loan" threads, etc.

    Personally, I found comments useful, except of course, the blatantly rude ones. When I, or someone offering something I want, is out of line on price, that's good to know. If somebody posts a 10" Commercial Ektar and says it covers 8x10, I appreciate the person who points out that it does not, indeed have a sufficiently large image circle for that format.
    Michael W. Graves
    Michael's Pub

    If it ain't broke....don't fix it!

  9. #19
    Vaughn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Humboldt County, CA
    Posts
    6,370

    Re: How to handle "Free on Loan" threads, etc.

    I believe one of the reasons for not allowing discussions on sale items was that the For Sale section is not archived -- so any great tidbits of information on a sale item are eventually lost...and the preservation of such knowledge is the driving force of the forum.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  10. #20

    Re: How to handle "Free on Loan" threads, etc.

    I seldom sell or buy on forums anymore. I'll NEVER loan pricey things to others because of very bad experiences. People SELDOM return what they borrow.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •