Processing 4X5

[Randy]

When I was a photographer in the USAF, because of the volume of 4X5 we processed, we dip-&-dunked our B&W 4X5 using hangers in 3.5 gallon stainless tanks - raise them up slowly, tilt to one side, dunk back in, raise them up slowly, tilt to the other side.

For my personal film I have always processed in trays (per the technique I learned reading some of Fred Pickers literature many years ago). I have no problem processing 16 or 18 sheets that way - shuffle gently thru the stack then rotate the stack 1/4 turn before the next shuffle.

Some years ago I did try processing 4 sheets in a Colourtronic drum that I used in my youth to process Cibachrome prints. I believe the negs came out fine but I guess because of the limited number of sheets I could process in the drum, I just stuck with tray processing.

I am tempted to give the drum a try again (just roll it back and forth on the counter top - I have no motorized roller) for the economy of chemical use, and because I am just beginning to worry a bit, after 45+ years of keeping my fingers in the chems, that perhaps that hasn't been the best idea.

So, I guess my questions are:

1 - Since my agitation will be constant, is there a speed of rotation that I should shoot for?

2 - My preferred film developer is Rodinal (only because of the cost) - is there a minimum dilution I should use, assuming I will be processing 4 sheets of 4X5 and I believe the reservoir holds 200ml?

3 - My drum is ribbed inside - will I need to fix the film a little longer after removing from the drum?

4 - Just curious - how is it possible to get even development when the developer is flowing over the film in just one direction, where as in trays I shuffle in a different direction each time?

Any other tips, suggestions, advice, experience anyone has to offer, please do.

[Pere Casals]

Let me say what I concluded

1 - Since my agitation will be constant, is there a speed of rotation that I should shoot for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuFNUO3H6v8

IMHO a 75 rpm speed is good, one may decrease speed if sheets go outside holders in some systems. JOBO CPE2-Plus has a single 75rpm speed, older model had 2 speeds.

I only use drum for E-6.

2 - My preferred film developer is Rodinal (only because of the cost) - is there a minimum dilution I should use, assuming I will be processing 4 sheets of 4X5 and I believe the reservoir holds 200ml?

You can process four 4x5 sheets with Xtol 1:2 in trays with 100ml of stock dilution, total 300ml. 5L stock are $10, so developer cost for four 45 sheets is $0.2, $0.05 per sheet.

Xtol has the very low toxicity advantage, so you can put your finguers inside, anyway there is no need. I'd use a 8x10 paper safe to develop 4 sheets, the 300ml of Xtol 1:2 dilution should cover well the sheets.

I close lights to dump the developer, I use water stop, and then I fix lights open, so fixer strength can be checked, by knowing the time it takes to clear.

3 - My drum is ribbed inside - will I need to fix the film a little longer after removing from the drum?

You should fix with the drum (why not?), as agitation is great then fixing time will be lower.

4 - Just curious - how is it possible to get even development when the developer is flowing over the film in just one direction, where as in trays I shuffle in a different direction each time?

With constant agitation developer is refreshed very well in all negative surface. Jobo processor inverts rotation after few seconds, but I guess this is for other reasons (film positon stability in holders ?).


I prefer developing in trays because agitation can be reduced to provocate chem exhausion in dense areas, so highlights are controlled, with low chances for bromide drags, because gravity doesn't help drags when film is in horizontal position.


just my 2 cents, Regards

[Jim Noel]

My fingers have been in photochemicals for over 75 years. I only wear gloves for some of the more dangerous ones.
1. It is difficult to say what speed. When I use a drum in the sink I think I roll it about every 3-4 seconds.
2. The amount of developer concentrate is the determining factor. Because the usable quantity of developer in most tubes is around 500 ml, Rodinal at 1+100 should be OK. If you want to use smaller quantities you need to alter the dilution to probably 1+50. The temptation of too many workers is to use high dilution and small quantities which can easily lead to developer exhaustion.
3. Probably in order to remove the lines caused by the ribs.
4. Since the drum is rolling back and forth the ribs cause an interruption of the smooth flow thus giving nice even negatives.

I have and use such drums when I only have a few negatives to process. If I have more than 4 I usually go to the trays. I also have a JObo with Expert drums, but still prefer trays. By the way, if you use a tube and want to load a second or third batch of film,fill it with water and then load it. Much simpler than trying to dry it enough to prevent sticking,.

[xkaes]

I also use Colourtronic tubes from 4x5 to 24x30. As for rotation, I either use a Colourtronic water bath (more important for color work) or a Unicolor roller. The former is one-way (unless I turn the drum around), while the latter automatically reverses. The Unicolor rotates about once a second but only handles drums up to 11x14. The Colortronic can be varied by adjusting the water jet strength.

In all cases, for film, I've standardized on about one rotation per second. (For enlargements, the tubes are much longer and can take a few seconds to rotate.) I've never used tubes larger than 8x10 for film processing. The problem is the base nature of the developer is very slippery and if the film moves, things get messed up. With the Colourtronic tubes, the section that DOESN'T hold any film is on the OPPOSITE side of the label. So I always keep the label side UP and when I turn the tube up on its edge to add or drain chemicals, I always make sure the label is on top and I tip the tube SLOWLY.

As to dilution, I normally use the highest dilution I can. It means longer processing times, but that helps avoid mottling and other problems.

Always rinse out the tubes before use. I have occasionally had film stick to the back of the tube and the back of the film has not been exposed to the chemicals. If this happens, just stick the film in a fix bath until clear and then wash/rince.

[DKtucson]

When I was a photographer in the USAF, because of the volume of 4X5 we processed, we dip-&-dunked our B&W 4X5 using hangers in 3.5 gallon stainless tanks - raise them up slowly, tilt to one side, dunk back in, raise them up slowly, tilt to the other side.

For my personal film I have always processed in trays (per the technique I learned reading some of Fred Pickers literature many years ago). I have no problem processing 16 or 18 sheets that way - shuffle gently thru the stack then rotate the stack 1/4 turn before the next shuffle.

Some years ago I did try processing 4 sheets in a Colourtronic drum that I used in my youth to process Cibachrome prints. I believe the negs came out fine but I guess because of the limited number of sheets I could process in the drum, I just stuck with tray processing.

I am tempted to give the drum a try again (just roll it back and forth on the counter top - I have no motorized roller) for the economy of chemical use, and because I am just beginning to worry a bit, after 45+ years of keeping my fingers in the chems, that perhaps that hasn't been the best idea.

So, I guess my questions are:

1 - Since my agitation will be constant, is there a speed of rotation that I should shoot for?

2 - My preferred film developer is Rodinal (only because of the cost) - is there a minimum dilution I should use, assuming I will be processing 4 sheets of 4X5 and I believe the reservoir holds 200ml?

3 - My drum is ribbed inside - will I need to fix the film a little longer after removing from the drum?

4 - Just curious - how is it possible to get even development when the developer is flowing over the film in just one direction, where as in trays I shuffle in a different direction each time?

Any other tips, suggestions, advice, experience anyone has to offer, please do.

For low cost of dev look at obsidian aqua. 250 grams of pyrocatechol at $26 US will dev 1000 rolls. You will need 20 grams of sodium metabisulfite and about 1.6kilos of wash soda

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