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Thread: Giclee my Schmicklee !

  1. #1

    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    We have an art foundation here in Blanco County Texas headed up by Benini. He's a decent sort. An immigrant from Italy and a very good 'modern art' painter. He's established a sculpture ranch up in the hills along with his own large gallery and puts on a symposium of artists the last weekend of every month. His gallery features other artists on a regular basis.

    I go sometimes to see what's going on. There's usually a couple of photographers and most attendees have some passing interest in photography. They have all taken to using the term Giclee. Every time I hear it I giggle out loud and say something like "oh, you mean ink jet. Giclee is so phony and pretentious." Needless to say this is not winning me any friends.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I truly feel like the use of this term is a complete flim flam. Meant to obfuscate the truth, lie to the public, and garner mystery and 'hoi poloi' pretensions to the photographer.

    I understand that the photographer wants to get across the information that fine art inkjet processes ARE very different than what the average joe can get out of his HP multifunction machnine and that even with the finest printer around Joe Average would have a tough time getting a fine color or tonally adjusted/balanced print out of it.

    But this Giclee thing is not the way. It's so phony. Why don't we just call the prints fine art ink jet prints and if anybody asks, explain that they ARE indeed not just the result of any old inkjet process?

    The 'ART' community however has already adopted Giclee. Should we just let it go and take what is offered to us? The ostentatious term does work on most buyers.

    Wikipedia's definition:

    Giclée (French for "spray") is the use of the ink-jet process for making Fine-Art prints (first done in the early 1990s). Originally the term applied to "Iris" prints created on the Scitex Corp. "Iris Model Four" colour drum piezo-head inkjet proofer. Proofers are specialized commercial printing machines designed to proof or show what the final multi-color process printing will look like before mass production begins. The term "giclée" is frequently used to describe any high-resolution, large-format ink-jet printer output with fade-resistant dye or pigment based inks. It is common for these printers to use between seven and twelve colour inks. Though originally intended for proofing, many artists and photographers use ink-jet printers as an alternative to lithography for limited editions or reproductions.

  2. #2
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    I just refer to mine as "Archival Ink" prints. I never say injet or Giclee just like I never said "Silver Projection" or "Gelatin Silver Enlargements" or some silliness like that for silver prints or "Contact Printed PP". Inkjet or Giclee is part of the mechanics of producing the print not what is on the print.

    I agree with you the Giclee thing is a scam to make it sound exotic and special. Any knowledgeable collector would know better. This is aimed at uninformed buyers.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  3. #3

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    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    "Giclee" is French slang for "ejaculate".

  4. #4

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    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    A friend and fellow photographer has started using the " Archival Ink" method and he has produced some beautiful prints. I on the other hand must be considered old school as I work almost exclusively in pt/pd and I'm not one to argue on what medium is better, to each their own, is my attitude. My friend kept on insisting that we test his new inks. I was opposed at first because with all the work that goes into making a pt/pd print I just couldn't bring myself to expose one to adverse conditions ( even a work print). But he kept on insisting and even went as far as to offer to buy one of my work prints for a test. Well I gave in and we laid a platinum and an inkjet print in harsh direct sunlight. This was four weeks ago. He has yet been back to view the results so the prints continue to be in the harsh light. I can't see any noticable difference in my pt/pd print as yet but the "archival ink" print is beginning to look like a Monet water color ( washed out). I'm very disappointed for him because he is so excited about this new medium and I won't do anything to discourage him from using it because he produces some amazing prints. But I can't seem to endorse these inks as being archival. Now this just may be a fluke and something went wrong in his process because i know nothing about these new inks. But I do know what my eyes tell me.

  5. #5
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    Thanks, Phil.
    I was about to agree with the original post, but now that I know what giclee really means, I'm going to start using it for my work immediately.

  6. #6
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    I believe we should offer our cleints excellent prints. I see no need to differentiate between silver/ink/platinum/etc. By making these distinctions we only make what, arguably, could be an artificial differentiation in the eyes of the buyer. Production of the master print, IMO, takes the same amount of time regardless of the process. If careful notes are taken making the original 'wet' print then subesquent prints are no more difficult than duplicating a digital master with saved settings.

  7. #7

    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    Dear Scott.

    You are right on.I have an art gallery in Houston dedicated exclusively to photography and everyday I have to listen to all sort of nonsense about digital photography and the people who have learned the term " giclee" and drop it at the least provocation to prove they know something.
    It is high time we refer to things for what they are.Traditional silver gelatin photography or the many permutations of digital imaging and printing.Only by doing this we can understand each other.I make no critical judgement as to the value and esthetics of one versus the many others but critical and artistic differences clearly exist between the many different techniques and it is an evolving thing.
    Giclee, schmicklee... you got it.

    Luis

  8. #8

    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    Every time I hear it I giggle out loud and say something like "oh, you mean ink jet. Giclee is so phony and pretentious." Needless to say this is not winning me any friends.

    Sure, it's pretentious. No, you'll not make many friends pointing out to people that they're being pretentious.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I truly feel like the use of this term is a complete flim flam. Meant to obfuscate the truth, lie to the public, and garner mystery and 'hoi poloi' pretensions to the photographer.

    For instance, I'd like to point out that the term 'hoi polloi' actually means 'the common people', although you've used it incorrectly in a way that implies that someone might have "'hoi poloi' pretensions', as if 'hoi polloi' meant 'elite'.

    Don't you think that's a bit of a complete flim flam, intended to obfuscate the truth, which is that you clearly don't know what the term means and you're just being pretentious?

    And finally, did I win any friends by pointing this out? No, I did not.

    Maybe there's a lesson there.

  9. #9

    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    Ah hah! So John Cleary finally has some competition uh? Good for you Luis, does your gallery have a web site? Let me know...... :-)

  10. #10
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Giclee my Schmicklee !

    Robert,

    Richard Misrach and Joel Merowitz have been selling beautiful C prints (Misrach's are even processed in green developer that's how he gets those pastel tones) for 25 years. These prints should not even be hung anywhere for any lenght of time but kept in dark storage.

    Platinum/paladium does not define accepted archival standards, P/P FAR exceeds them. That is great and that is a selling point to knowledgeable buyers. I too have done my own testing of b&w prints from UC inks (not against P/P because I know what would win) but to determine if I think Wilhelm's predictions are remotely acurate and they appear to be on B&W at least.

    As per Ted's view, all my prints, whether silver, ink, Ilfochrome or P/P come with a replacement guarantee. The only thing I have ever had to replace was a silver print with staining of some unknown origin and a couple of silver prints where the dry mounting failed (the temperature read twenty degrees higher than it actually was on a used press that I bought). I replaced them without question and I will do the same with ink.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

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