Interesting Lerebours Counterfeit lenses?

[Steven Tribe]

A conflict between the need for "truth" and messing up someone's auction listings.

There are 2 splendid looking "early Lerebours" listed as 332264787549 and 332264790250.

I have multiple problems with the engravings and sent my concerns to the lister. Perhaps others can see what I don't like?

[goamules]

The font and the "&" instead of "et" don't look familiar. But if someone has the book on French Lenses, maybe they can see if others have ever been like this.

[Steven Tribe]

I have the book and there are no examples of lenses that have the ampersand (&) rather than the "et".

There are also no examples of text engraved "round" the brass sleeve, rather than "across" the sleeve.

The sub text "A PARIS" would never be engraved by a Frenchman it would be "À PARIS". Lerebours always used small letters - " à Paris". I think these were "Made in England".

Minor point is that this is supposed to be an early lens and the engraving is quite a lot smaller on these.

Perhaps these are examples of the copies which lead Lerebours to introduce serial numbers and/or lens micro engraving?

There are a few brass oddities, too. There are only two mounted screws which, otherwise, are only found on the CdVs made by Ross

[Two23]

I too have emailed the seller Apsley about these glaring discrepancies: "LEREBOURS & SECRETAN" instead of "LEREBOURS et SECRETAN", and also "A PARIS" instead of "a Paris." I spent over an hour looking at the engravings on a couple of dozen other L&S lenses and couldn't find a single example that matched the lenses in question. There is also a difference in the way the shaft was attached to the focus knob. I asked if seller would absolutely guarantee authenticity in light of rampant counterfitting at that time. I have yet to get a reply. As much as I am (was) interested in both lenses, I'm thinking there is little chance these are genuine, and I'm not going to risk any money on them. I'm also not impressed with seller's non-response to my request to guarantee authenticity. Unless other confirmed examples of L&S using "&" instead of et, and "A PARIS" are provided, I'm going to have to skip these. I am disappointed that an established seller like this did not seem to investigate these anomalies a bit more and offer an explanation. While I don't pretend to have the experience of Tribe, I do have a nice little collection of pre-1860 Petzvals and have been buying them over the past six years.


Kent in SD

[pjd]

I emailed the seller, he replied saying he'd been away a couple of days so didn't reply immediately. He added that he'd removed both listings to give him time to do a bit more research.

I don't think anything untoward is going on with the seller, and in fairness the listing states full refunds are available on all items, for any reason.

[Steven Tribe]

I have every confidence in the lister, who has listed many interesting large format items in a very sober and understated way.

He has emailed me with a very nice message. I have mentioned this thread and I suggested he relist as a "LErebours et Secretan" lens instead of a Lerebours et Secretan lens - and list all the problems the engraving and brass work has! I know he prides himself on not having replicas, but these fakes are historically very interesting.

Unlike the terrible Voigtlander engravings we see every year!!

As the listings have been ended, here is a direct link to one of them:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3322647875...torefresh=true

And this is what an early engraving should look like. Serial numbers started around 4,000.

[Two23]

They likely are older, i.e. 1850s, lenses. I just wouldn't pay a premium for them. OTOH, these might be the best counterfit examples I've yet seen! As such they are interesting historical relics. I've bought from Apsley before and likely will again.


Kent in SD

[Pfsor]

The sub text "A PARIS" would never be engraved by a Frenchman it would be "À PARIS". Lerebours always used small letters - " à Paris". I think these were "Made in England".

Steven, not sure if you wrote it just as a typo but no educated Frenchman would ever write "À PARIS". Quite the contrary - an educated Frenchman if using capital letters would always write "A PARIS" - knowing that in written French accents are omitted over capital letters. Cheers!

[Steven Tribe]

No typo - my mistake! I was in doubt, but the French keyboard accepted it. My apologies to all French speakers and Francophiles!

In fact, the "&" comes from the French (and Latin) "et" which was abbreviated to strange swiggle looking a little like &!

[Bernard_L]

knowing that in written French accents are omitted over capital letters

Not so. This has become tolerated through the use of typewriters, that do not provide accents on capital letters.
But proper typesetting (books...) has them. And the spellchecker also flags missing accents on capitals.