Bellows flare on 8x10 Zone VI

[Steve Williams_812]

I have wrestling with a problem that I can only identify as flare inside the camera. I am seeing a line of increased density along the 8 inch side of the film which sits at the flap end of the holder. It does not matter how I have the back oriented either for right or left insertion. It does not appear on verticals.

At first I though it was a development surge mark but just could not image the JOBO 3005 doing that. After some tests I have eliminated that.

The problem only appears in bright sun and the sun isat the side or towards the front of the camera. It appears even if I carefully shade the lens.

The Zone VI 8x10 appears to have a very tight bellows with little extra space beyond the film area. I have never seen this with 4x5. The camera is used but in excellent condition. I have to assume this is the original bellows.

The link below will take you to a sample image showing the problem. Look carefully on the left hand side of the frame and you will see the line. I can certainly crop it out but damn, would be nice to fix it.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/s/f/sfw3/images/sfw3-flare.jpg

thanks,

steve

[Pete Caluori]

Greetings,

I looked at your image and on my screne I really can't see any flare, but from your description I suspect you have problem with your film holder/s. You might want to consider testing the holders outside the camera. The easiest way to accomplish this is to load the holder with unexposed B&W paper and let it sit in the sun for a couple of minutes, making sure to rotate it in all directions. A second test should be with the holder inside the camera, with the lens closed and the dark slide removed. Develop the paper and check for black marks. Any black marks on the paper indicate light leaks. If both sheets process as pure white you may want to check your film development next. Good luck!

Regards, Pete

[Michael Kadillak]

Since you have taken the time to do your homework before posting (great job by the way), I would only offer the following:

Look back into the camera toward the 8x10 ground glass from the lensboard. If there are any wooden surfaces surrounding the ground glass assembly on the inside of this camera anywhere that you can see that are not a matte black (say stained wood), you need to get them in that condition.

Flare (internal or external) is one of those uninvited guests that come to our photography excursions all to regularly that needs to be put to bed. Yesterday I masked and spray painted the inside flaps of several of my ULF S&S holders to solve a similar problem.

Cheers!

[Steve Williams_812]

Pete---I have tested the holders, they're fine. I wasn't going to do that since they were all brand new, but I wanted to rule out everything. It is hard to see the line, and it took a discriminating friend to point it out, but now I can see nothing else.

Michael---I have to confess I was not as thorough as you suggest. I looked inside the camera and used matte acrylic Mars black paint to touch up some areas of the bellows that I thought could be black BUT I left the wooden parts of the back untouched---they are stained black but could be blacker with matte paint.

The back of the lens boards have a lovely black finish but they are satin and not black. So I will paint everything matte black tonight!

Hopefully this will put the flare problem to rest.

thanks,

steve

[Brian Ellis]

Your holders don't necessarily leak light in the sense of being defective, but any holder will let light in if the open end is left in bright light for a long enough period of time after the dark slide has been pulled. When you're in the bright sun light that you describe, do you cover the holder with your dark cloth after the dark slide has been pulled and also while taking the dark slide out and putting it back in? If not try doing that and see if it makes a difference.

I haven't seen the picture you posted and I certainly could be wrong but a "line" of increased density in the same place every time but only when the holder is in the horizontal position in bright sunlight sounds to me like it could be light getting into the open end of the film holder. Maybe because the dark slide is out for a while before the exposure is made, maybe because of a problem with the way your holder is seating in the back when you have it in horizontal position, maybe (but less likely than the first two maybes) because of a problem with your back not completely closing for some reason when in the horizontal position.

The real kicker here to me is the fact that it only happens with the back in a horizontal position. If the problem was flare caused by light bouncing off the back of your lens board or inside the bellows or any other place inside the camera I would have thought the problem wouldn't be limited to times when the holder is in the horizontal position. But who knows, the many different ways problems can be created in large format photography stagger the mind. I hope you'll let us know what the problem was when you figure it out, as I'm sure you will eventually.

[Steve Williams_812]

Brian--- The problem occurs even if I carefully remove and insert the dark slide under my dark cloth. The last series of test negatives were made with all holder action under the dark cloth, and this darkcloth is heavy and dark.

The line looks so similar to surge marks I used to get with stainless steel hangers that I thought it had to be development problems.

In addition to repainting all internal "stained" surfaces with matte black paint, I will insert a high intensity flashlight through the front of the camera, tape it shut, turn off the lights in the darkroom and listen to a Tom Clancy tape while I wait for my eyes to adjust to see if any light is leaking out.

I am beginning to appreciate Sally Mann's comments made during her Art21 interview about paying homage to the photo gods when you use 8x10. I never ever had a problem with 4x5 like this. It is really testing my patience at $3 plus per test shot.....

steve

[Andy tymon]

Hi Steve, thought I would chime in and say that this happens on my 4x5 MPP in the same place! I finally found the culprit by shining a small low powered flashlight in from the lens end of the bellows with a holder in the back. I shone the light on to the bellows and lo and behold there was the light hitting where the film would be. In my case it's a small strip of black metal between the rotating back and the bellows. As It only happens when the camera is pointed towards the sun I didn't do anything about it. I probably will now as I have decided I will never sell the camera. Lte us know if the black paint works

best Regards Andy tymon

[Gem Singer]

Hi Steve,

Look for a very tiny light light leak where the bellows connects to the rear standard of the camera. I am not certain that the 8X10 Zone VI has an interchangeable bellows. If it does, check to make sure that the bellows is installed properly.

[JohnnyV]

Looks like the sun is coming in from the right side. You mentioned the holders are new? Plastic?

I've seen this before - don't know if it's the same cause as mine - light hits and refects off the shiny plastic of the film holder opening edge to create an increased density.

[Michael A.Smith]

Johnny V hit the nail on the head. I'll bet you have plastic film holders. And I'll bet that the mark you are seeing is reflectance off the flap where there is the "V". To solve the problem, take emery cloth and use it like sandpaper on the flap, dulling it down. That should take care of the problem.