Official Fujifilm Japan announcement of end of Acros sheet film

[Peter De Smidt]

Pere,

Your posts do the opposite of promoting your view.

[Pere Casals]

Yep, Kodak is really

Numbers are numbers.


Film Price per 80 sq inches

TMY 135 ............4,95
TMY 120 ............4,81
TMY 4x5 ............10,80
TMY 8x10 ............10,35

Fuji Acros 135 ............6,49
Fuji Acros 120 ............4,79
Fuji Acros 4x5 ............10,70
Fuji Acros 8x10 ............9,98


----------------------------------------------------


HP5 135 ............5,19
HP5 120 ............4,69
HP5 4x5 ............5,27
HP5 4x5 ............5,00
HP5 8x10 ............4,40


Delta 100 135 ............6,95
Delta 100 120 ............5,29
Delta 100 4x5 ............5,91
Delta 100 4x5 ............5,40 (different retailer)
Delta 100 8x10 ............4,60


Here you have the complete list:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ce+pere+casals

[Pere Casals]

Pere,

Your posts do the opposite of promoting your view.

Why ?

I summarize my view: Fuji/Kodak are thinking to kill LF lines. To me their sheet pricing suggests they don't consider new customers for the long term.


Why Kodak/Fuji are not promoting film usage ? like this:

[ben_hutcherson]

I've seen your list more times than I care to count.

Once again, explain to me why if Kodak is really trying to "kill" the LF market when the prices on two emulsions often discussed are lower now than they were two years ago.

You're ignoring this because it doesn't support your narrative.

Don't try the silver price argument now because silver is $2-3/toz higher than it was in 2015.

And please spare us another copy paste job on the price per square inch chart-we've all seen it more times than we care to count now, and posting it a second time in this thread isn't going to show a darn thing.

[Pere Casals]

I've seen your list more times than I care to count.

Once again, explain to me why if Kodak is really trying to "kill" the LF market when the prices on two emulsions often discussed are lower now than they were two years ago.

You're ignoring this because it doesn't support your narrative.

Don't try the silver price argument now because silver is $2-3/toz higher than it was in 2015.

And please spare us another copy paste job on the price per square inch chart-we've all seen it more times than we care to count now, and posting it a second time in this thread isn't going to show a darn thing.

Hello Ben,

IMHO things are quite simple: term of the marketing graphs.

After complex calculations marketing staff plots a well known graph: Profit sv Price. Profit depends on price, sells, fixed costs, and variable costs. (and sells depends on price...)

When your product has captive customers then graph have two versions, depending on the term you calculate the profit, so kodak/fuji managers may have a plot with short term profit vs price, and another one for long term profit depending on the price.


If you bet for long term bussines you cannot squeeze your captive customers, beacuse then the global profit earthrockets. If you plan to kill a product line the most lucrative policy is squeezing your captive customers, just what they do.

If any doubt, see the acros discontinuation.

Also there is a tied graph, return on investment in publicity, for short and long term, vs total investment in publicity.


So Kodak/Fuji don't know what will happen with LF in the future, and they opted for squeeze today and discontinue tomorrow.


Regards.

PD: And, to me, this is very sad. I'm desolated an angry.

[faberryman]

Except that Fuji does not have any captive customers. Fuji just has regular customers who have choices in the film they elect to purchase. Instead, Fuji has a price/demand curve, which likely shows that they can't sell enough film at the desired profit to make continued manufacture viable, so they act rationally and discontinue the product. I give them enough credit to believe they have including intangible values, such as reputation, cultural treasure, etc. in their calculation. Compare that with your irrational hand-wringing.

[Pere Casals]

Except that Fuji does not have any captive customers. Fuji just has regular customers who have choices in the film they elect to purchase. Instead, Fuji has a price/demand curve, which likely shows that they can't sell enough film at the desired profit to make continued manufacture viable, so they act rationally and discontinue the product. I give them enough credit to believe they have including intangible values, such as reputation, cultural treasure, etc. in their calculation. Compare that with your irrational hand-wringing.

Fuji have captive customers: all color slide photographers. Velvia and Provia users have no alternative. (Ektachrome 135 returns in few months, it looks).

Now Fuji say, hey man, Velvia box is $550 (in my country) with taxes:



do you want to shot slides or not... ???

As they have no competition... and even if they sell the half they will have more profit... But they are to kill the product line in the medium term, like with acros.


The crazy sheet pricing of Kodak/Fuji will end in the discontinuation. There is no alternative. These prices are the classic resource to kill a product line with best profit, but also a way with no return.

They are killing all that, IMHO there is little doubt.

Regards

[faberryman]

We were talking about Acros.

[Pere Casals]

We were talking about Acros.

Acros also had it's captive customers. Some based their photography on it, a lot in Japan. And it has unique well known features for night photography.

All LF sheets form Fuji/Kodak are in the same process, 2x the ex-factory based retail cost, and when demand is low enough, a shot in the neck.

Very sad to me and I imagine that also to most, but these are the facts, and these are the news.

[Oren Grad]

Pere, please see your PM.