Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 51

Thread: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

  1. #31

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Seattle, WA
    Posts
    956

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Patrick – I finally took a look at your website, and I must say you’ve generated much nostalgia here. I’ve made so many extended trips to your Canadian Rockies in the ‘70s that came gushing from my memory banks. But, unfortunately, at 82 the body will no longer obey my commands. I can recall every minute detail of the crowning trip – a 10-day traverse with a buddy of the Brazeau Icefield in ’74. Leaving our car at the Poboktan Creek ranger station it was off to Endless Chain Ridge / Coronet Glacier / Valad Pk. / Mt. Henry McLeod / Mt. Brazeau / Mt. Warren / Mt. Warren / Monkhead / and down to Maligne Lake. Then walking 4 miles IN the lake (because the shoreline forest was so dense it was shredding our packs) back to the tour boat dock at the Narrows. Hitched a ride on the next tour boat back to its base at the north end of the lake, then hitched a ride to Jasper for an overnight room rental & bath, a steak dinner, and hitched a bus ride back to the car (Canadians are very accommodating to mountain travelers) such as us. Then on the way back to Seattle it was up Mt. Athabasca for sunset photos and back down in the darkness that night. None of this was LF, as the pack weight was 82 lbs including rope and all the necessary gear for safe glacier travel . . . sigh! I’ve always gravitated to the snowy places, rather than “desert rat” country, but I have to file a complaint : your Canadian snow is so dry it doesn’t compact very easily under the tripod feet (not at all like our local mountains in the Seattle area). And it makes it hard to go up 70* slopes, too.
    Last edited by Jerry Bodine; 14-Jun-2017 at 22:12.

  2. #32

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Bodine View Post
    it was up Mt. Athabasca
    Hi Jerry,

    That trip sounds amazing. I plan on climbing Athabasca's neighbour, Andromeda, in late June.

    Here's a shot of me in front of Athabasca's south face trying to explore the east arm. Shortly after this shot we were hit by a serious snow storm and decided to turn back.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	athabasca.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	41.9 KB 
ID:	164895
    Last edited by Patrick Gauthier; 15-May-2017 at 17:23.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Seattle, WA
    Posts
    956

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gauthier View Post
    ...I plan on climbing Athabasca's neighbour, Andromeda, in late June...
    Apologies for the major drift from tripod discussion, but I must say:
    Ahh, Andromeda !! The year after the aforementioned trip, my buddy and I went up Andromeda from the west. There had been quite a few feet of your soft snow laid down with a fairly thin crust on the surface. On the way down I was a bit ahead of my buddy, moving very gingerly, and about every third step I'd break through the crust and be up to here in snow. It was so exasperating that at one point, after breaking through again, I pounded the crust with both hands. My buddy told me later how he thought that was so hilarious but didn't dare laugh aloud. He still tries to talk about it to this day until his eyes water laughing. Just some joy to recall. We've certainly had times when it was pure knee-slapping laughter together - one incident I was on my hands and knees laughing so hard (partially due to exhaustion). Good times!

  4. #34
    adelorenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Whitehorse, Yukon
    Posts
    457

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gauthier View Post
    An example of a suitable design would be the Gitzo GT1532 series 1 Carbon Fiber. Would the series 1 legs be stable enough?
    My lightweight tripod is a Gitzo GT1840C basalt. I can confirm that the series 1 legs are quite sturdy with a 4x5 camera and the four section legs are great for packing up small. It weighs less than 1.2 kg. Max height is only 44 inches so maybe too low for your needs. My problem with this tripod is not the legs but the head. I have a small lightweight FLM ball head that weighs 150 g and is rated for ~10 kg but in practice I find it hard to really lock the my Super Graphic down well. My super is totally stripped down so it's a pretty lightweight camera. The small head really struggles with my heavy-ass Fotoman 612. So I don't use this tripod very often. I need to find a better head for it.

    My main tripod is a carbon fiber Gitzo 1227 Mountaineer. It only weighs 1.55 kg and is an order of magnitude taller and more stable. The problem of course is that it is harder to pack due to it's large size. Then you have my Toyo 3-way head that weights heck of a lot. This tripod has seen a lot of pretty rugged outdoor use in spite of the weight.

    So, when it comes to hiking, climbing mountains, mountain biking, skiing etc. I generally either suffer with the big tripod or bring a camera setup I can shoot handheld. I'm still trying to dial in a lightweight 4x5 setup that I can work with but I think that the Gitzo legs are up to the task.

  5. #35

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    UPDATE: Based on advice/suggestions of many, I purchased the following:

    FLM CP-26; CB-38 FII head, SRB-40 clamp, QRP-70 plate with two Q1/4" screws.

    I thought I'd give a little review of the tripod to add to the content of this thread.

    First of all, Ari from FLM was great to deal with. Ari included a few extras at no additional cost. The whole setup was very fairly priced as well.

    Second, the craftsmanship is impressive. I'm especially pleased with the ball head. It's memory lock system supports the the wista DX (also a wista SP) and a 590g lens at max bellows draw (300mm). You can still freely adjust the position of the camera, and let go an it stays in place without locking it down all the way.

    The two screws on the 70mm plate is perfect for the wista dx (which has two 1/4" screw holes). Never have to worry about rotating the camera around a screw after I've carefully composed my shot.

    Legs are robust. As I was reminded by several in this thread, including Ari himself, it is a small tripod, and thus, not impervious to some vibration, wind shake, and bowing at the joints (bowing isn't an issue at the tallest leg angle though). 5th leg extension is quite thin, nonetheless at full extension the legs are superior to my previous legs in terms of locking the leg angle, not shifting at all in any plane, and reducing vibration.

    Notably, as Mark Tweed pointed out, even a small improvement in terms of duration of vibrations is most helpful. Waiting 50% less time for the camera to stop vibrating might be the difference in stabilizing the camera between wind gusts.

    I took it out for the first time this past weekend. Weather was hospitable with little wind, so not the best scenario to test the full capacity of the tripod. Every negative was tack sharp, no surprises in terms of the framing shifting ever so slightly. So far I'm very pleased.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	descent1.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	64.3 KB 
ID:	166145Click image for larger version. 

Name:	descent2.jpg 
Views:	49 
Size:	55.0 KB 
ID:	166146Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ascent1.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	110.3 KB 
ID:	166147
    Last edited by Patrick Gauthier; 15-Jun-2017 at 08:26.

  6. #36

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tripod1.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	49.8 KB 
ID:	166139Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tripod2.jpg 
Views:	97 
Size:	75.4 KB 
ID:	166140

  7. #37
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    6,286

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Thank you, Patrick, for your kind words and positive evaluation of the CP26-Travel tripod.
    We've had it tested with numerous 4x5 cameras, and it's done extremely well.
    My next tests will be done by one of our ambassadors who shoots 8x10 wet plate and travels throughout North America for her work.
    She needs something more portable than her large FLM tripod.

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    southeast Idaho, Teton Valley
    Posts
    218

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Although Patrick has made his decision, there are other options that may work for others, so here are some thoughts.

    When I saw "4 by 5 tripod for mountaineering", my first thought was "huh?" Then I looked at Patrick's website photos, and realized that my own definition for mountaineering is different, or at least I was assuming modest climbing on steep, exposed rock, snow and maybe ice would be involved, and speed would be of the essence (like no time for any sort of photography except quick hand-helds, and no hauling of packs up steep chimneys, etc.).

    In this thread, some have mentioned W. H. Jackson, and this gave me an idea. With my own experience re-taking his photos in the Teton Range (for an ecological project), I've realized that he, or his assistants, took some photos while sitting with the camera on their knees or on a box. Jackson had a tripod, but duplicating some of his shots with one is extremely awkward. In steep mountains, not bringing a tripod, but kneeling, sitting, resting the camera on a pack or something (small bean bag?) would help solve the vibration problem. Also, some sort of binocular/reflex viewer, or a rangefinder, would make for quicker shots. Sure, it would be harder to use movements with a rangefinder or simple viewfinder, but when there is a lot of topographic relief, movements (tilt, mainly) don't usually work very well anyway.

    Although I have used a 4 by 5 field camera with a tripod, ordinary film holders, and dark cloth for photos involving easy mountaineering or ski mountaineering, for anything more I think a Crown Graphic with a rangefinder and Grafamatic film holder would be more workable. You would have to be creative on bracing the camera in very steep terrain (where a tripod probably would not work anyway). My camera of choice for mountaineering is a Rollei 35 or a Nikon F3 , but for a better image, I wonder if a 6 by 9 folder with a good coated lens would be a better compromise.

    Of course this thread involves tripods, but still, my main point is that a tripod is not a good idea in steep mountain terrain, with any sort of camera.

  9. #39

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Your description is of alpine climbing. You'd have to be a mad man (or woman) to go alpine climbing with a 4x5 kit now that there are good digital options. Check out Jimmy Chin's work, and yes, he doesn't bring a tripod, it's just not practical.

    Your main point is referring specifically to alpine climbing? It would be hard for anyone who shoots large format in steep mountainous terrain to agree with a blanket statement that tripods are not a good idea in that scenario. It would be pretty reckless to try and set up on 70% snow fields or hands-on sections. Much safer to wait until I reach a safe location, usually a col or summit. There is something to be said regarding my sanity in thinking it's a good idea to lug a 4x5 kit into those environments in general, but not bringing a tripod would be a mistake.

    I've thought about a handheld rangefinders, but agree with you about movements and the process of framing through ground glass. I also almost always use red filters with light weight lenses with small apertures, so I wouldn't have the luxury to shoot handheld at the required shutter speeds.
    Last edited by Patrick Gauthier; 24-Jun-2017 at 21:24.

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    southeast Idaho, Teton Valley
    Posts
    218

    Re: 4x5 tripod for mountaineering

    Regarding post #39:

    Part of the problem or possible disagreement is the loose definition of mountaineering. Mine was too strict, and I agree that the activity I was describing could be called alpine climbing, or alpinism. But mountaineering could be a range of travel in the mountains, from scrambling over moderate terrain to difficult rock and snow, i.e., alpinism. Being more specific about the terrain you are traveling would have been helpful without using the vague term "mountaineering".

    I am familiar with Jimmy Chin's work, and for some years he lived a few miles from me until he moved to NY. We had fun on the same local mountains -- Wyoming's Teton Range-- , but not together. All of the routes on the Grand Teton, for example, would still be considered as "alpine", yet, in 1898, on the first definite ascent, William Owen took a summit photo with a camera that we would call large format, probably whole plate. Of course he did not have much choice in camera size, and he was a little crazy.

    Your statement "It would be hard for anyone who shoots large format in steep mountainous terrain to agree with a blanket statement that tripods are not a good idea in that scenario. It would be pretty reckless to try and set up on 70% snow fields or hands-on sections. Much safer to wait until I reach a safe location, usually a col or summit." is contradictory to me. The risk of taking a tripod is more dependent on the most hazardous or difficult terrain to be traveled on, not where the tripod will be set up. If the route involves "alpine climbing", where speed is safety, and minimizing weight and bulk is paramount, it's riskier to take a tripod, even if it fits in a pack and it will be used on safe ledges and such.

    Even so, I see what you are getting at. So few people get into the high, snowy, steep mountains with LF cameras, so high quality pictures of dramatic terrain are rare and worth seeing. As I stated earlier, tilts usually don't work when the elevation range is high and ridges are close, but I think swings would be very useful when a steep cliff near the camera is included in a scene with more distant features, so a camera without movements would be sub-par.

    I've done some LF photography with a tripod in the steep mountains in winter and summer, but the routes were easy - maybe some 40-degree snow and rock up to 3rd class.

    The main difference in our approach is tripod importance. It's the first thing I would leave behind, and instead use creative ways of stabilizing the camera if necessary, but the downside of this is movement-use and ground-glass viewing become very awkward, so large negative "snapshots" could be the norm. Such images are what I see on your webpage. Very beautiful pictures of stunning scenery there, and I appreciate how hard it is to get the images that you have, especially the ones with dramatic clouds.

    Maybe you can get by with a 2 by 3 baby crown graphic or a 2 by 3 linhof, use fast film, a yellow filter with contrast increase in the darkroom, and hand-hold it or use some other small, creative mount. This approach would increase speed and choice of terrain, and allow for more dramatic photos in complex terrain such as icefalls, narrow couloirs, etc. An orange filter is a good compromise -- good contrast in the snow, but letting in a stop more light than red, of course. Bradford Washburn took many nice photos in snowy mountains, and used an orange filter. Many of his early Alaskan expedition photos were with a hand-held 2 by 3 camera.

    This thread is part of a larger issue -- getting the best image in steep, remote terrain with the lightest, bare-bones kit. There are fragments of this is many threads, especially on APUG, but I don't know of any that deals with it comprehensively. When I get time, I will start one unless someone else does it first.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •