There might be Dagors---the Dagor thread

[John Kasaian]

A new LF photographer is confronted with a plethora of different lenses. One of the most legendary is the Dagor which also commands a pretty high price on the used market.

This presents a challenge for first time lens buyers, to literally, dearly "buy" into the Dagor's reputation (like so many successful photographers in the past,) or pursue something else like (so many other successful photographers in the past.)

I thought this may be a valuable thread for new large format photographers putting together a first kit, just like last years thread on (IIRC) Wide Field Ektars.

Post famous photographer's iconic images, or your own, which prove or disprove the Dagor's reputation. Distinguish, if possible, any funkadelic attributes (surplus components assembled in a cave by myopic forest druids) that separate the garden variety Goerz from other makers.

Here is one of Ansel Adam's---

Ansel Adams: Pine Cones and Eucalyptus Leaves
4x5 Corona view camera, Goerz Dagor 12-in. lens
I love this image as I can imagine the acrid smell of decaying Eucalyptus and feel the tactile pop of the pine cone as if it were pushing through the printing paper.
The question is, how much of this can I attribute to the 12" Dagor? If Ansel had used a 12" Schneider or Ektar or Wollensak, would it exhibit the same qualities?
How much Adams? How much Dagor?

[Luis-F-S]

They're awful. Get something else! I shot 14 sheets of 810 today 1 with a 6 1/2" WA Dagor, one with a 19" Artar the rest with the 12" Dagor, but they're just awful! All hype!

[John Kasaian]

They're awful. Get something else! I shot 14 sheets of 810 today 1 with a 6 1/2" WA Dagor, one with a 19" Artar the rest with the 12" Dagor, but they're just awful! All hype!

Details, please.

[Luis-F-S]

It's a sarcastic post, I only have 11 Dagors!!!

[Leigh]

It's a sarcastic post, I only have 11 Dagors!!!

It did not come across as sarcastic.

Severely negative comments such as that should be flagged with a smiley face or similar.

- Leigh

[Mark Sampson]

Well, the can of worms is open again. As far back as the early 1990s 'View Camera' magazine ran a feature about Dagors and the controversy surrounding their reputation, but I don't remember their conclusions.
And I recall asking after them at one of the (long gone) big camera stores in NYC at around the same time and being told "They're cult lenses, all of ours are going to Japan".
Somewhere on this forum (I'm not going to look it up) is a long and sometimes hilarious thread about their relative qualities.
Of course the design was in production for 90 years or so, by many makers, so anyone's experience may be as valid as anyone else's.
I have very little experience with Dagors, but what little I had was positive, and a long time ago. (Living in Rochester most of my life, and working for Kodak for so long, gave me more experience with Kodak optics.)
I would like to use an 8-1/2" Dagor for a year or two, to answer John's questions for myself, but I feel the same way about the Porsche 356, so I may never know. But I'll follow the discussion with interest!

[Michael Jones]

I agree with Luis; they are so bad I'm having one one my longer ones remounted by Adam at SK Grimes in modern shutter so I can complain more. AA used them, EW didn't. How do you dissect that?

Come on; this is like asking about how you feel about Ron Wisner or the "new" Deardorff; terribly personal and abolutely subjective. A newbie's search of the Forum or review of the literature would be at least as valuable IMHO.

Mike

It did not come across as sarcastic.

Severely negative comments such as that should be flagged with a smiley face or similar.

- Leigh

[Bernice Loui]

Some time ago the local LF group had a get together to share B&W prints. One of the members put up a print, to my reply (did not take long to figure this out), image made using a Dagor, noted as correct by the member who made the print.

For those who have been at this for a while, Images made by a Dagor does have a distinct visual signature. There is a reason why the Dagor design has surveyed for so long in the world of sheet film. Image results from a Dagor is not for everyone, like most tools of artistic expression, they are just another means to an end.

And yes, there are several Dagors in the lens collection and they remain among my all time fave LF lenses for a host of reasons that is not based on "sharpness" alone.


The beginnings of another fight over nothing thread or will this thread be constructive, sharing and educational?

Bernice

[John Kasaian]

I didn't mean to pick a fight, but only to see various examples and hear impressions that may offer something to a new shooter who is trying to decide which lens to buy.
I mean, if you like Pine Cones and Eucalyptus Leaves, it would be understandable that a Dagor would be something to covet.
One of the most formative books I read while contemplating getting an 8x10 was Examples: The Making of 40 Photographs by Ansel Adams which recorded which lens was used for each photograph (and sold me on the 10" WF Ektar, not the Dagor btw. My interest in Dagors came later)

Me? I can make a horrible photo with any lens regardless of it's reputation.

[Bernice Loui]

Precisely!

It appears too often discussion about lenses ends up being a heated debate-fight, which is never should be. Dagors DO have a rather special image quality. Rather fond of them in many ways.

IMO, this could be a really, really great and interesting discussion.



Bernice

I didn't mean to pick a fight, but only to see various examples and hear impressions that may offer something to a new shooter who is trying to decide which lens to buy.
I mean, if you like Pine Cones and Eucalyptus Leaves, it would be understandable that a Dagor would be something to covet.
One of the most formative books I read while contemplating getting an 8x10 was Examples: The Making of 40 Photographs by Ansel Adams which recorded which lens was used for each photograph (and sold me on the 10" WF Ektar, not the Dagor btw. My interest in Dagors came later)

Me? I can make a horrible photo with any lens regardless of it's reputation.