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Thread: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

  1. #11

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    I would say that significantly more than 10 were made of the 1780mm/f14 APO

    The majority of the 1780mm and 1800mm APO lenses out there were indeed manufactured for reproduction cameras. Not just for graphics but more importantly for mask reduction for semiconductor chips in the early days (lithography)

    Three companies had an 1780/1800mm style lens.

    Nikon Nikkor APO
    Goerz RDA APO
    Rodenstock RONAR

    Some of these came in 1 or two versions (like RONAR CL) or simply 1780 or 1800mm.

    I know for sure that there were 30 RONAR's made, talked to the guys that actually designed these and sold them.

    I personally have the 70"/f16 RDA Goerz and based on info I gathered over the years, I suspect that the number that was sold exceeds 30. There were a lot of lithography cameras out there. Plenty of them used 1200mm for graphics but I've been told that semicon lithography was the main driver.

    As for Nikon Nikkor 1780 and 1800mm lenses ... 50+ easily both combined.

    When the semicon lithography cameras disappeared in the 90's, so did the lenses. Some of them were given away, others were simply destroyed by recyclers that went for the metal and discarded the glass.

    Between US and Europe I know about 6 Nikkors, 4 Ronars and 3 Goerz in the 1780 and longer focal length. This is in my limited circle ... there have to be more out there dormant.

    Just my 2 cents.

    There was also the 2500mm Boyer, I believe less than 20 made.

  2. #12

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    Quote Originally Posted by bjsmith7474 View Post
    A bit off topic, but what's an Nikon Auto-Edger 30? It was also in the box also.
    Perhaps refers to Lens edgers that cuts the perimetrer of a lens in a particular shape, for example for ophtalmic glasses or sun glasses.

    Here you can see the process https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwYTfglPkJo

  3. #13

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    I'm still not aware of any lenses that Fuji marketed to the graphic arts market
    Fuji E-221 Process Lens F4.5 , covers 4x5 , I think is f=190mm

    fujinon-xerox 510mm , covers 8x10

    I don't know more examples... but they have/had a graphic arts equipment division, I think...

  4. #14

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    Rudi, thanks for the reply.

    Re 2500/12.5 Apo-Saphirs, I have a Boyer catalog that shows 14 (I just counted) of them. I discussed these things last summer with Eric Beltrando. He wasn't aware of that batch, has seen another batch of 8. That makes 22. Practically speaking, though, they don't exist.

    Pere, it is very unlikely that a 190/4.5 lens is apochromatic and has low distortion. These are what the process lenses we've been discussing have in common. Same goes for most lenses made for Xerox copiers. I'm aware of only one that's apochromatic and low distortion. This is the 10.16"/9 Taylor Hobson Copying Lens made for the Haloid Model D type VR, later renamed Xerox 1385. One of Taylor Hobson's Apotals (= Apo Tessar) in a smaller mount than usual. Fine lens, as its smaller brother the 6"/9 Cooke Copying Lens made for Photostat Ltd. I have one of each.

  5. #15

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post

    Pere, it is very unlikely that a 190/4.5 lens is apochromatic and has low distortion.
    I think the E-221 is also from Xerox machines, so pehaps is not even APO... and just green light optimized...


    Rgarding the 1780 / 1800, I've an undocumented guess... I was told that the good performing one is the 1800 Tessar. Perhaps at some time it was difficult to glue those big elements in the rear group... so earlier design 1780 was dialyte... I also was told that a couple of hundreds of 1800mm were made, while few 1780mm units.

    Is the 1780 the earlier model? does not ?

  6. #16

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Amedeus View Post
    I personally have the 70"/f16 RDA Goerz and based on info I gathered over the years, I suspect that the number that was sold exceeds 30. There were a lot of lithography cameras out there. Plenty of them used 1200mm for graphics but I've been told that semicon lithography was the main driver.

    As for Nikon Nikkor 1780 and 1800mm lenses ... 50+ easily both combined.
    I'm curious, what ammount of LP/mm (at extintion) may resolve those 1800 ? I figure that with those huge image circles a high number it cannot be expected... still because the circle a lot of information is resolved, of course.

  7. #17

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Rgarding the 1780 / 1800, I've an undocumented guess... I was told that the good performing one is the 1800 Tessar. Perhaps at some time it was difficult to glue those big elements in the rear group... so earlier design 1780 was dialyte... I also was told that a couple of hundreds of 1800mm were made, while few 1780mm units.

    Is the 1780 the earlier model? does not ?
    The dialyte type Apo-Nikkors are newer designs than the tessar types. IIRC, the first tessar type Apo Nikkor came to market before 1950, possibly as early as 1946. There was some overlap, but the tessar types were phased out in favor of the dialytes.

  8. #18

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    Re: 1780/14 Apo-Nikkor production volumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    The dialyte type Apo-Nikkors are newer designs than the tessar types. IIRC, the first tessar type Apo Nikkor came to market before 1950, possibly as early as 1946. There was some overlap, but the tessar types were phased out in favor of the dialytes.
    Thanks, now it all makes sense. Perhaps for first APO Nikkors (with more primitive coatings) Tessar 3 grups were better for contrast, but with improved coatings a dialyte (perhaps celor variant) could be the best performing choice. I was very wrong thinking that the Tessar types were the modern version.

    BTW, nice article http://www.galerie-photo.com/apo-pro...ikkors-en.html

    Of course I saved it.

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