Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Scanning technique on 4870

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    1,266

    Scanning technique on 4870

    I have an Epson 4870 with Silverfast AI. I am fairly new to scanning. For the most part, I can get decent scans from chromes. I keep reading in threads about "proper scanning technique" . Other than setting highlights and shadows in the histogram, deciding whether to scan at 8 bit or 16, what other "techniques" am I missing? What other features do people use regularly? What settings do you most often use? I scan at 2400 ppi.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Harley

  2. #2
    Ted Harris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    3,465

    Scanning technique on 4870

    Several things:

    1) Have you calibrated yoru scanner to Silverfast? I believe the 4870 comes with a Kodak IT8 target to use for calibration but that is strictly to calibrate it it to the Epson software. You would be well advised to get an independent calibration package to do so with Silverfast.

    2) When you set the highlights make sure you actually set a white and black point using the triangles so that you are not clipping at either end.

    3) Make sure you are scanning with ALL the filters off ... no sharpening or other filtration.

    4) You may want to adjust the brightness/contrast/saturation curves but not necessarily for every image.

    5) At 2400 ppi you are scanning at a higher resolution than the scanner may really be delivering. It is in the right ballpark but you might want to try a scan or two at slightly lower resolition, say 1800 ppi.

  3. #3
    Photographer, Machinist, etc. Jeffrey Sipress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    641

    Scanning technique on 4870

    Ted, I believe that an it8 reference target is an industry standard that may not be limited to a particular piece of software. I have a Faust target (4x5, with data table CD) that I can use with any scanner or calibration software. In fact, I've calibrated my 4870 with it using the Monaco software. The same target can be used with the Epson or Silverfast packages that provide calibration routines.

    But to get on with Harley's request, I, too, wonder what some of the secret tricks are. I do use multi-pass scanning for color chromes. I do, however, set my output resolution to 360 and specify the output dimensions to approx 20 x 24" to achieve the same result and file size. There are a million adjustments, charts, graphs, sliders, and other choices in Silverfast. I ignore most all of them, and edit in PS.

    Come on pros, bring them on....!

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    711

    Scanning technique on 4870

    This thread has the potential to be one of the greats.

  5. #5
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    Rio Rancho, NM
    Posts
    5,034

    Scanning technique on 4870

    I use a clunky old Epson 3200 for scanning 4x5, so I'm not sure what bells and whistles have been added in the 4870. But, the Silverfast controls are about the same. In general, I agree with the suggestions already made - particularly turning off any scanning filters and manually setting the black and white points on the slider. With respect to contrast, I prefer to set curves when necessary - getting close in the original scan, and then refining that in Photoshop. Also, as noted, monitor calibration is key - otherwise, what you see likely isn't what you have. Contrary to the Epson instructions (unless they've changed them), I also scan with the emulsion side down (as in an enlarger), and then flip in Photoshop.

    As to scan size, Silverfast offers several approaches to determining the input "resolution". I set the desired output resolution (DPI) for the largest digital print size I might make from the scan, and let Silverfast figure out what it needs to scan at to produce that.

    I did a brief summary of some of the techniques I use (being careful to note that there are other, potentially superior methods for almost everything I suggest), and posted it on my Resources page:

    http://www.rbarkerphoto.com/scanning-tutorial.html

  6. #6
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    9,864

    Scanning technique on 4870

    I agree with all the above plus:

    *to my taste these scanners are adequate for prints up to 16x20 from 4x5. If you want to go larger or have large areas of important shadow detail got to a drum scan.

    *Don't use Digital Ice on important images. It kills fine detail.

    *upgrade to AI 6 "studio"- the multipass sampling feature actually works and greatly reduces noise. *x is usually adequate.

    *if you are in a humid environment, the image may expand from the heat enough to defeat the registration software of multi-sampling. Immediately repeat the scan while the trans. is warm so it doesn't expand during the passes.

    *run SF in the stand alone mode with big files to get around PS's file limitations or upgrade to CS2.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    NJ / NYC, USA.
    Posts
    331

    Scanning technique on 4870

    Personally, I think this is nitpicking, but I thought I would pass it on. There are those that claim the automated focus point for Epson flatbed scanners has a degree of variation; i.e., the optimum focus point may or may not necessarily be the plane where the film rests as placed in the supplied holder. The sharpest focus point may be above or below where your film sits.

    I've read in some threads where spacers (fancy name for sheets of paper) have been placed under the edges of the holder to bring the film plane into coincidence with this optimum focus point. If you can device a test to (really) incrementally move your film closer to or farther away from the scanner glass as to find the position where the sharpest scan is obtained, it may prove to be a worthwhile proposition.

  8. #8
    Scott Rosenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    The Incredible Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    859

    Scanning technique on 4870

    could somebondy please expound on this point...

    2) When you set the highlights make sure you actually set a white and black point using the triangles so that you are not clipping at either end.

  9. #9
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    brooklyn, nyc
    Posts
    5,796

    Scanning technique on 4870

    "I've read in some threads where spacers (fancy name for sheets of paper) have been placed under the edges of the holder to bring the film plane into coincidence with this optimum focus point. If you can device a test to (really) incrementally move your film closer to or farther away from the scanner glass as to find the position where the sharpest scan is obtained, it may prove to be a worthwhile proposition."

    This all seems true. It may be one of the reasons these scanners are inexpensive. The good news is that the depth of field is quite good, so the difference of a milimeter or so is surprisingly small. But if you're trying to get the best scan possible, it will make a visible difference.

    Also keep in mind that wth the stock holders your film will not be flat. Don't worry about finding the precise focal plane unless you're wet mounting (if you search the forum, you'll find a lot of ideas on this--it will definitely add to what can be considered "scanning technique.")

    If you do all of the above (wet mount, find the focal plane, etc.) then 2400ppi is a perfectly reasonable scanning resolution for this scanner. The actual optical performance is probably a bit lower, but not much.

    One trick that works is to scan at the full 4800ppi and have the scanner software interpolate down to 2400. In Vuescan this is called tif file reduction; not sure what it is in Silverfast. Doing this will average every 4-pixel block to produce each image pixel. If you just scan at 2400, the software throws out every other pixel and every other scan line. The advantage to interpolating down is that you get some noise reduction. The only disadvantage is speed.

    Don't consider multipass scanning with this scanner. The transport isn't precise enough to line up each pass precisely, and your scans will be less sharp.

    Finally, some people have found that cutting a mask (a black sheet with openings just for the film and for the small calibration area) reduces flare in the scanner and gives better dynamic range. I do this, but haven't tested it. It's easy enough.

  10. #10
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    9,864

    Scanning technique on 4870

    "Don't consider multipass scanning with this scanner. The transport isn't precise enough to line up each pass precisely, and your scans will be less sharp."

    The "Studio" upgarde to SF AI 6 solves this problem with a more sophisticated alignment program.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

Similar Threads

  1. Which scanning program with the Epson 4870?
    By Yaakov Asher Sinclair in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 15-Jun-2007, 07:56
  2. Problems scanning B&W in Silverfast Ai/4870
    By Jeffrey Sipress in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 24-Oct-2005, 14:34
  3. FYI: Deals on Epson 4870
    By Kevin M Bourque in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 19-Jan-2005, 22:51
  4. Betterlight Scanning Back for Film Scanning?
    By William Leigh in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 18-Dec-2004, 13:50
  5. Epson 4870
    By Martin Patek-Strutsky in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 13-Feb-2004, 14:28

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •