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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Shooting Velvia 100 directly into a sunset?

    I just missed out on a wonderful sunset that unexpectedly developed under a cloudy sky.

    I just caught the last dip and metering indicated LV ~11 at the sun halo and EV 2-3 in the shadows.

    With me I have a 3 stop reverse grad, a 3 stop hd grad and a 2 stop soft grad alone with Velvia 100.

    The metering indicates ~ 9 stops of dynamic range that needs to be covered.

    Pulling out the 3 stop reverse would get me down to 6.

    So to correctly expose, should I meter just next to sun halo, then open up 1 and 2/3 and then open up another 3 stops (to compensate for reverse grad and let the shadows fall as they may?




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  2. #2

    Join Date
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    Re: Shooting Velvia 100 directly into a sunset?

    Quote Originally Posted by l2oBiN View Post
    I just missed out on a wonderful sunset that unexpectedly developed under a cloudy sky.

    I just caught the last dip and metering indicated LV ~11 at the sun halo and EV 2-3 in the shadows.

    With me I have a 3 stop reverse grad, a 3 stop hd grad and a 2 stop soft grad alone with Velvia 100.

    The metering indicates ~ 9 stops of dynamic range that needs to be covered.

    Pulling out the 3 stop reverse would get me down to 6.

    So to correctly expose, should I meter just next to sun halo, then open up 1 and 2/3 and then open up another 3 stops (to compensate for reverse grad and let the shadows fall as they may?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I'm also in the adventure of learning Velvia... big sheets are not cheap at all and one must master that stuff to get results on budget.

    You ask for "correctly expose", but to me there is no standard "correct exposure", just there is a correct exposure for what you want to obtain.

    So first you have to make a "visualization" of what you want to obtain. And then you have to apply your Velvia knowledge to obtain it


    Next I detail the method presently I use to know what will obtain with great precission how velvia will work, specially in sunsets a challenging situation.


    Fact: Slide film has low latitude for highlights, and great latidude for shadows, this comes from the way ISO rating is defined for slide film, that was to be projected (today also scanned), and as no post process is there (if projected) photographer need to nail exposure and filtering.

    If you are not to project, just scan, it is better to underexpose, you'll get saturated colors around sun and shadows may be recoverable with a good scanner (better a drum) that has multi-exposure software feature. For example EPSON V750 has it with Silverfast SE Plus, but not with SE (without the plus).

    If you a re to project or to enjoy a 8x10" sheet in a light table, you'll need to use a higher power back illuminator. This is the best way to personally enjoy it.


    So you have to learn Velvia behaviour. This is a recipe from how I did it.


    Use a 35mm SLR (I used a Nikon F5 , 50mm /1.8 AFD).

    Use Matrix metering to get a "base exposure", not the final one, but the reference one.

    Switch to spot metering mode, with that exposure set in manual mode.

    Explore interesting areas of the scene (Sky, Clouds, Near sun, Shadows, Deep Shadows) this the spot photometer.

    Write down the over/under exposure of all spots of the scene you measured with the spot photometer.

    (To write down I made a photo with tablet and then I edited it with Kids Paint app, drawing ии+ to indicate 2.5 stops overexposure, and ||- to indicate same 2.5 stops underexposure.

    Then make a bracketing with the SLR... say seven shots from -3 to +3. You can bracket 5 scenes with a roll.

    Then inspect the results !!!!

    You will have direct information of how sky, clouds, sun, around sun, shadows and deep shadows are depicted if spot photometer says they are at +3 or -2.

    Of course if clouds were measured at +2 with spot meter in the reference shot, then clouds are at -1 in the shot bracketed at -3.

    Then you'll know how clouds look at +5, +4, +3, +2, +1, 0 and -1.


    Then... when you go around with the view camera also take a SLR/DSLR with a 50mm prime (I use a light Nikon F65 with 50mm 1.8 AFD), just guess and exposure place it in the SLR in Manual mode and explore the scene with the spot meter. If clouds are at +2... you can remember how Velvia 100 depicted clouds at +2. (Also place a filter if it is to be used).


    My experience is that a 50mm SLR lens (or any prime) has near same metering result than a modern (80s on) LF lens, and near same parasite light. Anyway any little difference can be known and compensated.


    Some people think that there are a big difference, this is because LF shutters from auctions have speeds that are very incorrect. If you want to shot Velvia in LF first you have to do is to check the real speed of your shutters:

    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/expo...rge-format.htm


    You can buy a shutter tester at ebay for as low as $15 (photocell to PC soundcard type).

    Also check diafragm calibration if there is any doubt (shutter/diafragm assembly replaced?)


    Regards

  3. #3
    Corran's Avatar
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    Re: Shooting Velvia 100 directly into a sunset?

    Meter and place the shadows appropriately, the 3-stop RGND is pulling down the highlights into the usable range, so no need for "compensation." That's what I do with GND filters.

    Underexpose at your peril. Might have a nice slide to look at on a light table but an Epson isn't going to scan it well. The trick is to shoot it right, not underexpose or overexpose. Bracket if needed, and in digital you can blend exposures as well.
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    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

  4. #4
    Thalmees's Avatar
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    Re: Shooting Velvia 100 directly into a sunset?

    Hello all.
    Thanks 12oBiN for the question.
    A complete post was deleted unfortunately due to bad internet.
    It's a challenge really.
    Please check the uploaded figures.
    http://s.pictub.club/2017/01/22/sPLZsH.jpg
    http://s.pictub.club/2017/01/22/sPLag7.jpg
    http://s.pictub.club/2017/01/22/sPLT4m.jpg
    http://s.pictub.club/2017/01/22/sPL8ro.jpg
    5the figure & link will be in the next post.


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    The generosity of spirit in this forum is great, its warmly appreciated.
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  5. #5
    Thalmees's Avatar
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    Re: Shooting Velvia 100 directly into a sunset?


    The generosity of spirit in this forum is great, its warmly appreciated.
    ------------------------------

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Re: Shooting Velvia 100 directly into a sunset?

    Thank you for extensive efforts in your answers.

    Thalmees, awesome drawings, makes it a lot clearer.

    I will get be it a shit with a 3 stop rd and see what happens.

    Perhaps having a 4 or even 5 stop RG might be worth purchasing?

    One thing that would be good to know is how do you place the RG precise let where you want it? It's always damn blurry...

    I cut out and folded a piece of paper equal to half length of the filter and it helps visualise the transition line...


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  7. #7

    Re: Shooting Velvia 100 directly into a sunset?

    I understand that this is an older post but perhaps the OP is still around, so here is a little bit of info. I use ordinary post-its on the Nd grad filter to help place the filter in the best area. Of course, you do this at an aperture as close to your shooting aperture as possible. For the classic sunset scene there are also reverse ND Grad filters available. However, bright sunsets and slide film is no easy thing but keep shooting. All the best, John

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